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icon 09-Nov-97

Note: it is a general Troubled Times policy to change the names of IRC participants to screen names and remove personal discussions that occurred during the chat in the interests of privacy.

WAFFLE: I've been thinking, about ways to make simple shelters in city areas, places with no hills and lots of buildings that will probably get demolished, etc. You probably can't start building domes in your backyard, people will 1.) think you are crazy 2.) it's probably against code and would stir up talk (which might be good, but you might not get your dome built either.

SPOT: Cities are not a good place to be..

NORSEMAN: You're right, Waffle. Agree Spot

WAFFLE: Well, I've only been in the city (or county around it) but for all practical purposes it's a city, and while it might not be the best place to be, it's where MOST people are going to be.

NORSEMAN: Why do you think so Waffle?

SPOT: I would be more concerned with safety in a city

VIOLA: Domes in cities are going to have so many more problems.

WAFFLE: Therefore it is imperative that there are solutions for the cramped city dweller, and not the survivalist type.

VIOLA: First off, a city will have rubble instead of any kind of smooth place.

VIOLA: Second, a city will burn, so any kind of structure put up ahead of time will have all that to get through.

NORSEMAN: Cities are not the best place to stay or life in the Aftertime and during the pole shift

VIOLA: Third, a city will have gangs, for SURE, where rural areas might NOT.

SPOT: A lot of violence also

VIOLA: Fourth, a city won't have any kind of healthy soil, should normal gardening want to be done. Waffle, the city dweller who is not a survivalist type has many strikes against them too.

VIOLA: If they are content to live in a hovel, a broken building, half open room to the elements, and know how to grow hydroponics and have constructed a windmill on top of a broken building, maybe yes, they could survive.

VIOLA: Presuming one would live through the earthquakes which will surly reduce older buildings to rubble and damage modern sky scrapers too.

NORSEMAN: I am not planning to live in city,. thinks it to dangerous

SPOT: There will be a lot of emotion on this subject.

VIOLA: Then there is the fire that will break out and spread.

SPOT: And gangs..

VIOLA: Due to the concentration of people, gangs will surely form, those like minded finding each other, and due to the number of scavenging opportunities, the number of handy victims, they will become operational and hone their skills and nerve.

ROSE: I have a storm sewer picked out if I'm not out of the city in time

WAFFLE: There could be benefits, abundant resources etc. to being in a city. Not saying they outweigh the benefits of getting out.

SPOT: You should be out well in advance

NORSEMAN: But I think that the benefits of not being in a city weights more then staying in a city

VIOLA: Waffle, what abundant resources? Canned goods in the stores? They will be gone in a week!

WAFFLE: I don't know about the storm sewers, we used to ride our bikes through them as shortcuts to other parts of the neighborhood or go underneath high-traffic roads. They fill up with water too high.

ATOM: Hm, do you think it's possible at all?

VIOLA: If you mean picking over the junk for metal and supplies, parts, yes, the cities will be rich in that regard.

WAFFLE: That's what I was thinking

VIOLA: Atom, I think there will be survivors, I just think all but the ruthless will not survive for long, and then those will be heading out into the country to when food runs out.

NORSEMAN: But I don't think that you have to be in city necessarily to do such things.. If you live near a city you can also do such things, right?

VIOLA: Being NEAR a city is not a good idea either!


SPOT: Gangs will still be near a city.

VIOLA: The gangs will head out when they finally get to starving, and you can't hid very well when there are roads all around and old maps that say where the suburbs WERE.

NORSEMAN: Agree...

VIOLA: Unless one were prepared to rig a windmill, grow hydroponics, recycle sewage into fish pond - NONE of which sounds likely except maybe the hydroponics, one would not survive long. Hydroponics needs light, and light needs electricity, and electricity probably means, for a city, a windmill. A flag to the gangs as to where survivors are living!


ATOM: I know. I just meant if it's possible to survive in a city on a long run. Probably not. Everybody will move out.. Well, if nobody stays, you may go in and find things, and then return back to your place.

VIOLA: I suspect that survivors will trek out into the country, seeking something, anything, those that can walk, anyway.

WAFFLE: Well, around here the only people that seem to know anything about survival are the military types, nothing is taught about 'survival' in the city. So you're probably right, we're all doomed.

SPOT: Your not doomed Waffle. Just prepare..

VIOLA: Atom, I suspect there will be runs to cities to 1. collect parts and material, and 2. to see if there are survivors who deserve to be saved. Little children, for instance, left abandoned for one reason or another. Poor tykes!

ROSE: NYC is having a test of emergency operations.

SPOT: Do your best to get out of the city.

NORSEMAN: Agree, Spot

WAFFLE: Even worse is the airport/military operations nearby, just asking for a nuke.

ROSE: When announced on TV, even the reporter smirked, too many people.

VIOLA: Waffle, being young and talented and full of creative ideas, I highly doubt you will be sitting in a city a week after rotation stops! Doesn't sound like you! I sure hope that the military removes all the nuke heads after rotation stops, but most likely they will just be thinking of their own selves, not the rest of humanity.

WAFFLE: I guess we'll see.

NORSEMAN: For certain people moving isn't easy, family etc.. but moving is better

SPOT: I think one big key is, finding your place and learning the lay of the land. You will have a major advantage over most folks that way.

ROSE: Many prophets predict something big for NOW, Nov & Dec '97 ?

SPOT: You will know how to get around and get away if need be.

VIOLA: Rose, the movie Asteroid was such a joke. I laughed myself silly. They had FEMA actually be effective and efficient, courageous, where in actuality they are staffed by political appointees and during the last big hurricane disaster too weeks instead of hours to set up.

WAFFLE: I just wish there were some trick or idea that would give the people in a city a good sporting chance. Even in the county where there is a tad more grass =)

VIOLA: Then they emptied Kansas City in hours, total evacuation, with only one drunk a problem. Hah! Big cities can't move folks even during rush hour!

WAFFLE: Right.

ATOM: I didn't mean you stay in a city. Just "drop by" when empty to take things that are still usable.

ROSE: I saw it too. Ha ha, but scary, still hit home, the devastation

SPOT: It will not be a pretty sight at all.

VIOLA: Deb, my hunch is next spring, though I think we will have some big earthquakes soon. I wonder if the 12th will not be talked up, sighted, next spring. Not sure.

SPOT: We are worried about California this winter Viola..

NORSEMAN: I think that someone will find the 12th

VIOLA: Yes, Spot, I think California is very very due for some big ones. I too am tense.

ROSE: Now, I suspect, Japan goes under water, stock market & financial world collapse, these flares have me worried also, and now IRAQ

SPOT: Please be careful.

NORSEMAN: Don't worry about the flares

VIOLA: I know there have been thoughts, among some, to put up tents and feed the survivors straggling out of cities. I don't think this will happen either. On a spotty basis, it may, but mostly not.

SPOT: Every one will be too busy with their own small groups at first.

ROSE: TENTS = gang raids

NORSEMAN: Right, Spot

VIOLA: Down in Acapulco, after that hurricane recently, there was a demonstration of what military is likely to do. They kept the food and clean water for themselves, instead of distributing among the populace as they were supposed to do!

SPOT: The population will be sparse.

ROSE: So much for human instinct and self preservation!

VIOLA: This happens in Africa when grain and milk powder is send into the starving. It goes to the military, the gangs, and then onto the black market. The populace just turns into sticks and drops over, dead.

NORSEMAN: Right, such things happen over there Viola

VIOLA: I'm not talking about ALL folks, as the good hearted will act as usual, just that one should expect the bad ass and selfish to be there TOO, and this is what they will do!

SPOT: They will be there.

VIOLA: Deb, I think one thing we must do in TT before it all happens is come up with survival packets to hand out to folks, if we can't or won't take them into our groups. Deb, they won't survive, as the shock of the pole shift, the worry, will take them out with quietly failing hearts, I suspect.

SPOT: Good idea, there will be some hard decisions later..

VIOLA: Put an article up on the web that stated that old folks died in a hurry when displaced during the floods last spring, got sad and just passed on! Nature has her ways.

SPOT: I remember that

ROSE: I agree, have tried to separate supplies accordingly, for hand outs, but, "kits" really would be wasted.


VIOLA: For instance, hybrid seeds, and instructions on how to grow, but I suspect that folks wandering about would eat them before they would grow them. This is a hard topic, as if one just takes in every straggler, then soon the group cannot survive AT ALL.

ROSE: Viola, yes, wasted, instead of used properly.

SPOT: Yes, the hard decisions of who is who.

VIOLA: If you just feed them then they will not leave, you'll have your own homeless camp.

WAFFLE: The only hard part I have is that of the people that I've indicated the problem to around here, nobody takes any interest. people just don't understand. So I'm rather alone, it will take more time before more are convinced.

VIOLA: I suspect that in this instance those wanting to survive must leave the stragglers, go off to another place and try to set up a survival sites, though they would have a hard time leaving when all would be on their heels.

SPOT: I don't play games with folks here.

WAFFLE: I'm not venturing out into the woods alone, that's for sure

SPOT: I tell them and walk off. They believe me or they don't..

NORSEMAN: You tell them what? Oh, I know what you mean.

SPOT: They usually see my serious (and I do have one) and they listen. It is called the fear of losing.

VIOLA: Also, those service minded folks will be the ones who will find leaving others hardest, they are considered the rock by many, leaned on and demanded of, so this is a double difficulty for those folks.

SPOT: They fear losing information, friendship, etc.

VIOLA: Bottom line, unless one is with a group already established out in a remote area, rural, they are unlikely to begin to setup a good survival site. The mass of unprepared survivors would drag them down and they ALL would starve and die.

ROSE: Still going site hunting next weekend!! (Need boots)

SPOT: You must be stern.

NORSEMAN: spotk2: Well I think that people who will have to move from there country to another country will think more about losing friends then people who only have to move a few miles ..

WAFFLE: On a larger scale, the bad part is that if people were given real facts by the media that is so good at culturally conditioning them all their lives, a lot more people would have a sporting change.

SPOT: You're right Norse

VIOLA: Spot, stern won't work when folks are frantic. They will get aggressive and persistent.

VIOLA: Stern only works when they have alternatives.

SPOT: Stern to your self Viola, not to others.

VIOLA: Some will just get depressed and sit and wait to die, though, I agree, but many, the more self centered, will persist and demand to be taken care of. Not be an endless softy and think you have to take care of everybody, etc.

SPOT: They WILL help themselves, or die. Exactly. Yes, it is hard to tell some one else how to handle other people.

WAFFLE: I think most of that nitty-gritty stuff is hard to predict. no matter how prepared, or how unprepared, or whatever, one never knows anything

SPOT: One day, you will wake up and just draw the line.

WAFFLE: drawing the line quickly might not be as wise as drawing it slowly.

SPOT: It is hard to explain what drawing the line means.

ROSE: Yes, slowly is better for self it hurts to be stern to others

WAFFLE: it just seems that if you can convince people to help out instead of take handouts then everyone's better off. that's what I mean about drawing the line slow, if they really want in then they'll sneak around your moving hand, or just kick the chalk away

ROSE: Right waffle

SPOT: Convincing people is not the key.

SPOT: Never convince in my book.

NORSEMAN: And it doesn't work that good always. :)

ROSE: go on spot, what then?

SPOT: A man changed against his will, will be of the same opinion still

SPOT: You inform and move on to the next guy

ROSE: Wow, Spot, have to remember that one!!! Very good

NORSEMAN: They have to make the choice themselves. or he or she

ATOM: Right, Spot.

NORSEMAN: Agree Spot

ATOM: No use to convince those in denial. Tried.

ATOM: They become stubborn.

SPOT: Yes. I use this method all the time and I do not get non-believers..

WAFFLE: One of the hardest things that I have had a lot of trouble with all my life is that people rarely want to try for the sake of trying.

ATOM: The only way for them to see is when their house collapse

SPOT: You must be the leader. Lead by example

ATOM: Right, spot

VIOLA: In the movies, they show survival in the cities, but I think that's just because most of the movie goers are in the city :-).

SPOT: Yes, they must make the movie.

ROSE: Most movies have happy ending, they are movies.

SPOT: No one would buy it otherwise.

VIOLA: Frankly, what kind of a survival mode would there be? They could have hydroponics and fish tanks and recycled sewage and electricity from windmills, but it would have to be an embattled fortress!


SPOT: Then you must scare people away.

VIOLA: We may find the times changing as the weather gets worse, and more particularly as the earthquakes start getting larger and more frequent.

ROSE: Viola, and as people panic

VIOLA: We've had swam earthquakes in Italy and the California/Nevada border during the past 2 weeks, swarms of around 5.0 Richter!

NORSEMAN: Just like the past 2 months, for sure an increase in earthquakes and weather changes

VIOLA: What is the world had swarms of 8.0 Richter? Folks would sit up and take notice, etc.

ATOM: 7.9 in Tibet may be beginning. The biggest ever recorded by instruments. Yesterday.

VIOLA: Starvation is starting, in Africa where it always was a problem it will be worse and be ignored. Korea, of all places, and Indonesia now!

SPOT: What I mean is Waffle, pretend you are a farmer and plant seeds of information and move on. Some will grow, some won't.

WAFFLE: how to explain so they can understand.

VIOLA: So there may be a willingness to consider what we are saying seriously, and THEN, there will be a lot of demand for the information we provide.

WAFFLE: Spot good way of looking at it.

NORSEMAN: Spot: you mean like in that movie.. 'If you build it they will come'

VIOLA: This is why I think we are structuring as we are, to allow for lots of members, printed hardcopy, and an Inc. to allow funding to produce and distribute a video, etc.

ROSE: Usually, they listen seriously, then a few days later, back to denial

NORSEMAN: I notice that too, Rose

SPOT: Thank you, I have maps and stuff on my walls in my living room, when some one comes in my house, they know I am not kidding.

WAFFLE: I almost think it might be necessary for me to take the indirect route - distributing information in a sneaky fashion, etc. Stuff that hits hard, but they won't know where it came from, etc.

SPOT: Yes Norse!

WAFFLE: Because face-to-face with me people disbelieve, but face to face with the unknown they might.

ROSE: Me too, I have GMS new map hanging up

VIOLA: Maybe the best route is to drop a comment or two now and then, and wait until they come back for more. When they come back, they are probably ready to listen!

SPOT: I tell them... If I'm wrong, so what, ... but what if I'm right and your not?

WAFFLE: So is persuasion in visual form

VIOLA: For instance, if there were a swam of earthquakes, big ones, and everyone says "this never happens!", say "it will increase until we have the pole shift in 2003, as they are happening now because that planet is coming through". When they finally get ready to listen, they will come back and ask for more info.

WAFFLE: there's lots to the psychology of artwork, how to position things to force people eyes to move a certain way across the page, for example. Colors also.

ROSE: Yes, be a role model, my relative ask "so how's the plans going"

VIOLA: Rose, they are more interested than they admit!

SPOT: Even my kids tell people about the PS coming.

ROSE: I expect this winter, with power outages, I will have lots of house guests

VIOLA: I got some questions from a very bright member of my family, and well educated, serious questions when the Strange Universe thing happened.

WAFFLE: Viola yeah, so your saying that saying certain things will probably happen, then people will believe you after a couple of times, etc.?

NORSEMAN: Spot: that's good Spot.

VIOLA: They realized, if there is nothing to it, then why is she getting an offer? I'm an unknown, not famous, so why the interest?

WAFFLE: Viola do you have/want a hit counter for the ZT/TT sites?

ROSE: Viola, that's for sure, my son tells his friends also, it is not hidden info in this house.

VIOLA: Strange Universe had a government agent tell them that Star Wars was for 2003 and Planet X, though they did not have him/her on the TV, this was why I got the offer. My info coincided with that!

SPOT: And #1 most important thing I do is never lose my sense of humor.. it relaxes people so they are not afraid to ask questions. Who wants to talk to a know-it-all sourpuss.

VIOLA: Waffle, I can get statistics on the heavy hit pages from my ISP's, and mirror sites too, but I am too busy to deal with that. Frankly, there is a lot of interest! ZetaTalk got 17,000 hits the first month it was on the web, and nobody knew it was there!

NORSEMAN: I think a sense of humor is important..

ROSE: Yes, lots of interest, lots of folks lurking without intro's

WAFFLE: Maybe now that there is a ton of information on TT, maybe distributing information should be a primary target of interest? Perhaps effective ways to get a lot of people's attention to the matter without drawing harmful attention to yourself, etc.

WAFFLE: Does anyone have any thoughts about good attention-getting schemes, stuff that will slap people in the face? People might ignore tons of little details. what would hit home?

SPOT: Maps.

WAFFLE: and?

NORSEMAN: Evidence

VIOLA: I often wonder if a lot of our lurkers are NOT private citizens but institutes, university reps, aids to foundations, etc.

ROSE: Reality! predictions happening, hindsight, sad but true.

SPOT: Future map blown up and put on your wall will get every ones attention.

VIOLA: In other words, I wonder if folks are watching us to see how we work, progress, and at some point we will find they step forward and say they want to work with us on outreach, etc.

WAFFLE: People laugh at predictions a lot of times. Even when they do happen, am I wrong?

ROSE: My sister says, there has always been doomsayers, quakes always, happen.

WAFFLE: What about the everyday guy, in his pattern of getting up, going to work, and going home for 20 or 30 years straight. How to break the pattern?

VIOLA: Deb, the millennium is KNOWN to be a scary time, end time so to speak, as the 3,600 time frame is a known entity!

ROSE: IT IS hard for us to work 9 - 5 and still prepare, like leading two lives

WAFFLE: And what to do about all those midwestern Bible thumpers!"

VIOLA: Waffle, breaking the pattern is a huge problem! One has to say, 1. quit the job, 2. not spend money on the usual, 3. spend money on a possibility.

WAFFLE: Voila cool

ROSE: The midwestern bible thumpers ARE PREPARED in their own way already

NORSEMAN: What do you mean Rose?

ROSE: When I shop, its one for now, and one for later

VIOLA: Waffle, it may be that the smart families just change their spending habits and prepare, practice, No new car, just survival gear. The dad or mom works until the last week, then joins the rest of the family who are "vacationing" at the survival site. Something like that.

WAFFLE: Yeah, they think Jesus is coming in 2000, and most of them are literal about an un-literal book. They're all around here :( And they don't reason with science usually, it's not important.

NORSEMAN: I know what you mean, Waffle

ROSE: I mean the (what are the Osmonds?) they have supplies for years.

WAFFLE: Only Jesus is important. Viola is 'vacationing' the correct term? laugh

VIOLA: Christian fundamentalists are prepared for the end time in only one way, however - they expect to be raptured as they are the "faithful", so no need to prepare. In for a shock, that's for sure.

ROSE: The Bible says help, but if they don't listen or hurt then "cut them out", an eye for an eye.

WAFFLE: Waffle tells his neighbors 'oh, I'm just going on vacation now' (a week later the neighbor's houses fly to west county)

VIOLA: Waffle, whatever excuse would allow the kids and oldsters to be in the country, rather than in the city, etc.


VIOLA: No one should wait until the last minute!

NORSEMAN: Agree. Viola, I won't wait until the last minute, although it isn't easy for me, but anyway I will move.

ROSE: Waffle - I think my neighbors would suspect!



ROSE: Like Spot says, tell them you're going, what if it doesn't happen. What if it does?

VIOLA: Moving or changing circumstances well ahead of time is also another way. Quit job, move to the country, work our of a small town.

SPOT: You learn fast Rose :-)

VIOLA: Maybe the dad keeps his job in the city, and commutes on weekends. Many do this now anyway.

WAFFLE: I suppose it's not THAT bad, most people think I'm crazy from drawing bizarre designs or talking techno-nerd all the time, so maybe they'll just think I'm being myself when I stick signs in everyone's yard at 3 AM telling them to take a day off work and, try an earthworm or two for breakfast.

SPOT: Yummy!!


VIOLA: Waffle, as the slowing rotation will not happen overnight, they WON'T think you're crazy.

ROSE: Set up a vacation retreat home. Handy man special with lots of high elevation land, who cares what the house looks like, long as it has potential.

SPOT: All the seeds you plant now, will grow later.

VIOLA: There's bound to be a slight slowing, increasingly, as the week approaches. It's happening now, perceptibly!

WAFFLE: Viola you're right, there probably are lots of sneaky things you can do ahead of time that wouldn't be suspicious, if one is worried about their family disowning them or something. Or commiting them :)

NORSEMAN: Well now I mention to a friend of mine, I will invite you before it happens and if nothing happens. You can go back (That doesn't mean by the way that I don't think that something will happen)

ROSE: Yes, say "want to help dig a hole for septic? on my vacation site?"

VIOLA: Rose, right, but DON'T tell folks where it is! You'll be inundated by all the wrong folks, those who didn't bother to prepare, expect to be taken care of, want to rip you off, etc.

ROSE: Then lay down and put sheet metal over head! ha ha

SPOT: Reminds of the story of Chicken Little.

WAFFLE: I just had a thought.


VIOLA: Deb :-) Creative excuse making :-)

ROSE: ? Waffle

VIOLA: Those who survive best will be the ones keeping a quite front, but preparing behind the scenes.

WAFFLE: The tetrahedron is the absolute strongest shape you can make from sticks or beams. If you had some very thick metal or pipes, a tetrahedron would be the strongest when stuff is falling on it.

SPOT: Must have blown a fuse.

WAFFLE: It would be non-aerodynamic but simple and strong.

VIOLA: In the discussion on whether to build before hand, or after, one reason is that before hand attracts attention! If one stocks the building supplies, and puts up a structure afterwards, less likely to be known to all manner of unwanted visitors.

ROSE: A big septic hole doesn't run out of money temporarily.

WAFFLE: I made a tetrahedron from some short straws and weak twine, and pressed it together with my bare hands but could not crush it completely at all even when I tried real hard.

VIOLA: The military will surely target known installations such as indoor gardens or large survival camps, and power hungry generals want their soldiers fed!

ROSE: Went to sports authority, they sell large plastic bags in camouflage? Great for hiding supplies in different locations.

VIOLA: Rose, that shallow survival trench can be dug the week the rotation stops, best anyway, needs to be shallow, not filled with rain water and softened.

ROSE: Right, Viola

SPOT: I guess I am lucky where I live. All sorts of strange buildings and places. No one would notice a small survival site here.

WAFFLE: I'm thinking tetrahedron because where stuff is collapsing all around like in a city, it could withstand crap falling on it if made right I would think.

VIOLA: Waffle, you're thinking city, and I just don't think that will work. Too many strikes against it coming and going!

WAFFLE: Which means in a city where the buildings are falling and blowing around, you might have a sporting chance.

ROSE: I am planning on an eastern state and plan to "camp" many places along the way and accidentally, on purpose leave various supplies like bread crumbs for myself to final site.

SPOT: Good idea Rose.

WAFFLE: Strikes meaning what, physical blows to the tetrahedron shape or just bad resources for food you mean.

VIOLA: Another way to look at it is that the STO survival, which will be assisted by visitors, we are told, may be assisted by these stashes. The right folks "find" the stashes that others cannot come back to retrieve, and this helps them survive.

ROSE: Win some, lose some, many stashes, hard to afford.

SPOT: A jar of peanut butter could save someone's life.

VIOLA: Imagine a desperate family group, little kids, could not prepare or didn't hear at all of what was coming, just the bull shit excuses given out now, and they come upon a stash on their wandering. Life saving, imagine their relief, the parents seeing their little ones get a good meal, etc.

SPOT: Yes.

ROSE: Or even a tarp.

SPOT: I think one of the biggest things we as the old guys in the group need to do is prepare for the onslaught of folks that will be turning to TT for help in the near future.

VIOLA: Spot, this has been my feeling all along, a flood of folks, and I've been working to create a structure that will handle that. Each topic can go off to its own corner, frankly, and be worked on by a group, delivering web ready info, for instance.

SPOT: One day, it will be like some one turned on a switch.

VIOLA: Separate IRC chats, or whatever.

VIOLA: And prototype site development, practicing, the Inc. is ready to set that up.

NORSEMAN: Separate IRC chats good idea.

SPOT: Good Should be a topic for TT, Inc


ROSE: Prototype site? Functional survival site? Dangerous?

VIOLA: In the Strange Universe showing, I had about 5 minutes at best. The web shots were 1. of the upper right hand corner of the Pole Shift TOPIC, which is in red's with arrows 90 degree turn, and says "Troubled Times" real clear in the banner on all pages. 2. the ZetaTalk home page.

SPOT: Maybe, but when they are stealing the prototype, they are leaving us alone.

WAFFLE: Cool =)

VIOLA: Spot, I think TEAM development will flourish, folks trying stuff for real, etc.

SPOT: Yes. I am building a team here at home.

WAFFLE: I'm going to figure out the math for tetrahedron strength w/ various materials. infinitely easier to make than a dome for those n a hurry. I know how to double the strength of a tetra also I think...

WAFFLE: Waffle passes around a plate of fried worms.

NORSEMAN: Yummie. me first :)

WAFFLE: Waffle should start eating them just to get used to it. We need a secret spice that will make them taste awesome, just like braunswieger & mustard

ROSE: Are there special worms? Like do you actually mean blood worms?

WAFFLE: Together they are edible but apart they suck alone. Earthworms. The kind you can dig out of your backyard.

NORSEMAN: Yup, that kind.

ROSE: The kind squished in my driveway after a rain?

SPOT: Back, and a cyber cup of coffee for Rose, here you go.

ROSE: Thanks, Spot, but it does not hit the spot, pun intended.

WAFFLE: Viola said you can drown them, making them shit themselves of the dirt, then cook or dry them and grind them into worm flour.

SPOT: Eat them like spaghetti.

WAFFLE: Waffle laughs hard.

SPOT: Cute.

NORSEMAN: Only the idea, geeez

ROSE: Maybe I can bread them and disguise them.

WAFFLE: I think after powdering them the 'wormness' psychology will go away, just like Bologna.

SPOT: Can you imagine, a sandwich that moves as you eat it.

ROSE: Stop Spot

SPOT: Oooops

WAFFLE: Just think about how disgusting bologna really is. It's all kinds of crap scraped from the slaughterhouse floor and ground up.

WAFFLE: Earthworms are hardly grosser. Spot you're hilarious =)

SPOT: Thanks.


SPOT: I just have an over active imagination.

WAFFLE: I think you are supposed to cook all bugs and worms anyhow to kill parasite, etc.

NORSEMAN: Roast them.

SPOT: Actually, worms will purge them selves when put in clear water.

ROSE: Sooo, to change the subject, anyone here use colloidal silver?

NORSEMAN: I don't use colloidal silver.

SPOT: Not yet.

WAFFLE: I say adopt the bologna-psychology. Grind it all up into something unrecognizable.

ROSE: Waffle- that's for sure...

SPOT: I think into a powder and used in other dishes would work.

WAFFLE: A lot of people might eat it who normally would not. People might throw up whole bugs, etc. just because it's gross. Or packed into "worm+bug bologna"

SPOT: Yes, but they can share that way. Sorry.

WAFFLE: Something like that.

ROSE: Can you use same worms that are used for composting?

WAFFLE: Hahaahahaha

SPOT: Yes Deb

WAFFLE: I think you can eat almost any bugs, right? as long as they are cooked? Maybe not. We need a list of poisonous-to-eat bugs, although since most people don't eat bugs such a list might be hard to find.

SPOT: I think almost all insects are edible.

NORSEMAN: Don't know. You can also roast them above a fire.

ROSE: So no one has to know why you have worms or that they have two purposes, or what they are really eating.

WAFFLE: Right.

ROSE: American Survival magazine has many articles on which bugs are edible. Can look it up and start list?

WAFFLE: You can say "here's some food" when they ask what it is put some in your mouth, swallow it in front of them, and say it's food again :)( heh

NORSEMAN: Good idea, Rose.

SPOT: Here kids, sorry all out of Oreos, have a worm instead. They won't rot your teeth.

SPOT: Uh-ohh as everyone barfs.

ROSE: American Survival magazine has lots of ideas.

WAFFLE: There also should be something to maybe make it taste good. Of course worms might taste good anyhow, who knows. It's all conditioning, my mother can eat anything because she was raised to eat anything, I can't eat anything, I get nauseated to easily.

WAFFLE: Worm-oreos, I don't want to know what's being used for filling.

ROSE: My Dad always said "you will eat it when you're hungry"

SPOT: Worms should taste similar to a protein powder.


NORSEMAN: That's right, Rose

SPOT: Your Dad is correct. We did survival training.


WAFFLE: You'll eat it, but if there's any possibility of making it taste even a little better the success of you not throwing it back up is higher, goes with any food.

SPOT: In the Army and we ate a raw chicken.

ROSE: How about dipping in honey? Kids love treats.

SPOT: :-)

WAFFLE: Where do you get honey from?

NORSEMAN: Bees. Keeping bees.

ROSE: Should be part of your supplies, ha ha lol.

WAFFLE: Would bees be around?

SPOT: "Mom, why is my cookie moving?"


NORSEMAN: Well why not, Waffle?

WAFFLE: Dark. No flowers. Eventually anyway, maybe not.

ROSE: Peanut butter, honey, worms.

SPOT: Reeses worm cups.

WAFFLE: I tell you, I don't know a lot about nature. =).

ROSE: Then dip in sprouts or acorns?

WAFFLE: Waffle laughs.

ROSE: One big glob?

SPOT: Find a friend that does.

WAFFLE: Oh! where would one find raw salt, around river beds or something? The kind of salt you can eat, halite or whatever it is.

WAFFLE: Salt makes some things taste completely different--like corn on the cob.

NORSEMAN: I know something about survival but not that much