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icon 12-Oct-97

Note: it is a general Troubled Times policy to change the names of IRC participants to screen names and remove personal discussions that occurred during the chat in the interests of privacy.

NORSEMAN: When will Strange Universe be broadcast.?

SPOT: My daughter says it comes on here at midnight. Don't know when Nancy will be on yet.

NORSEMAN: Strange Universe has its own website, so perhaps they will mention it on that site..

VIOLA: Look at the changes since the last chat

NORSEMAN: You mean the changes on the website.. or you mean Strange Universe etc.?

VIOLA: 1. we've had a vote on Groups, put an issue that HAD to be dealt with sooner or later, and I think handled it well. 2. we're going to be on TV, albeit in the middle of the night :-) A year ago, web wrapping content for TT took only a couple hours, there was so little. Now it takes me 1.5 weeks out of the month.

NORSEMAN: I won't be able to watch it.. We don't have that show in the Netherlands. But maybe they will mention some things about it on there website (

VIOLA: I think it will soon be an almost continuous process.

NORSEMAN: That's a lot of work...

VIOLA: Norseman, they'll have a link to our web site from there's. They said that's for sure.

NORSEMAN: When will it be broadcast?

VIOLA: They want a list of what I think the most important shots of the web site, as they said they would use that also, since its so content rich. Norseman, I'll let you know as soon as I know, but it will be sooner rather than later.

NORSEMAN: They asked about the pole shift etc.?

VIOLA: I was thinking that the home page of TT would be a shot for sure, then the countdown at the bottom of that page (nah the countdown would be too tiny). Then the Path diagram, as they mentioned that already. New Geography?

NORSEMAN: Yes, good idea to mention that.

VIOLA: Norseman, yes. The subject is the year 2003, how I came to get that, what will occur then, the pole shift and Planet X and the cover-up of that, and my own agenda is to mention some survival techniques that they will include because they are a bit shocking and therefore interesting. This is a media trick. Folks remember the unusual most.

NORSEMAN: You mean?

VIOLA: Spot, thanks for reminding me, new geo for sure! Plus I thought the graphic of the 3 Zetas, and the ZetaTalk home page. That's about what they will deal with, I suspect, not any more.

NORSEMAN: But anyway, it's a good sign.

VIOLA: I heard from a TT member that others interviewed by Strange Universe said they thought their dialog chopped, too abbreviated. Strange Universe in fact warned me about that. They said "pick 2 or 3 things you want to say and talk to those things". In other words, don't try to pack too much in!

SPOT: Strange Universe is trying to up their ratings By airing a program that folks will remember, thereby remembering Strange Universe.

VIOLA: I think the points I want to say are: 1. the Zetas gave me 2003 (shot of the Zetas)


VIOLA: 2. a pole shift will happen, has happened before (describe tidal waves, Richter 9 earthquakes, new poles, etc. all in an hour)]

SPOT: And how to survive the Pole Shift?

VIOLA: 3. Star Wars can't stop it, as it would be like a kid throwing a rock at a tank roaring through.

NORSEMAN: Richter 9, earthquakes.. Wasn't it Richter 15 that will occur during the Pole Shift?

VIOLA: The US trying to get a laser up there powerful enough to strike a planet moving rapidly 14 million miles away from us, when it weights 23 times the Earth and is 4 times as big, is a joke. We're talking about the same US that blew a shuttle up because of a faulty O-Ring.

SPOT: That's what they say. They need that money for other things.

NORSEMAN: Things like?

SPOT: Getting their own butts off the planet.

VIOLA: The same US where upon invading Grenada the landed forces had to call Washington DC in order to talk to each other, as they had different phone systems!

SPOT: You're kidding!

VIOLA: Spot, yes. 4. can't stop it but here's how you survive.

NORSEMAN: Good points

VIOLA: a.) into a trench or metal roof that hurricane winds won't rip off, lay on the ground during that hour, don't expect your house to be there afterwards. b.) have enough stores to eat for a few months, beans and rice and canned meat.

SPOT: That should shock lots of folks into checking us out.

VIOLA: c.) prepare to eat, at a MINIMUM, pulverized earthworms and mushrooms grown in garbage, and Vitamin C pills, or d.) if you've prepared well, fish grown on algae eating sewage effluent, and hydroponically grown vegies and fruits.

SPOT: I like the second one better. :-)

VIOLA: Norseman, I should say Richer 9 all over so that it becomes Richter 15 due to SCOPE. No spot on earth spared.


SPOT: They can't measure past 9 anyway. Don't believe.

VIOLA: I need to say, eating earthworms or various bugs, particularly bug larva like the bears do.

SPOT: Besides, no one will be measuring anything at the time.

NORSEMAN: Agree, and no equipment to measure.. Right?

SPOT: No one will care at the time.

VIOLA: I also want to say that TT is aiming toward having a short wave Internet going, on the parts that the common person needs to have in order to make this work.

SPOT: Cool!!

VIOLA: I want to emphasize that we are aiming for INEXPENSIVE solution sets, not just for the rich.

SPOT: Mention the Inc.?

NORSEMAN: Cool.. Are you also planning to mention the Inc.?

VIOLA: I need to mention that the PS is a great leveler, will bring the rich down to the poor man's level. All in the same boat.

ATOM: Uh, are you always half an hour early?

VIOLA: That the Zetas say the rich will not leave their toys, and will "die clinging to their possessions like lovers". :-) I love that phrase.

SPOT: Hope they can swim.

NORSEMAN: Atom: most of the time , yes

VIOLA: There seems to be great confusion about the time! In an hour we'll have a whole bunch again, thinking THEY are on time! Is this or is this NOT 14:00 UT? Is this 13:00 UT?

SPOT: I wrote the UT time on my kitchen clock with a permanent marker. :-) 1400 UT is 5 AM for me. 1/2 hour ago

NORSEMAN: And Spot was on time.. so I guess he's on time.

ATOM: USNO master clock says 13:32:46 UTC.

SPOT: Well, change that thing. :-))

NORSEMAN: I guess we are a bit to early

VIOLA: So, between describing the PS and how to survive and life after, briefly, and how I got 2003 and what the 12th is (oh, yeah, and Sitchen too, mention his book, and Velikovsky, his documenting geo changes) Or better yet, I'll just MENTION the geo changes, quickly tick them off.

SPOT: Make em ask for more!

VIOLA: Atom, did you go to their web site and check?

VIOLA: Hey Sojourner, do you think you're early or late? Do you think it is before or after 14:00 UT?

ATOM: Time server Norseman references shows 13:36 UTC.

SOJOURNER: I think it is before, but I am not an expert on time zones :-) Atom should know

ATOM: There should be no checking first, I guess. I will check in a minute.

SPOT: It is an Atom-ic clock.

VIOLA: Well, Spot, you and I and Norseman are going on habit here! Daylight saving time must have screwed us up!

SPOT: Hey, it's early here. and yep on the daylight savings time.

VIOLA: Last time the chat was 3 hours, I was drained and the damn log was so huge I wonder if folks can even download it.

NORSEMAN: But it was a good chat

SPOT: I got it okay.

VIOLA: We chatted like crazy, then a bunch more came on and we had a second chat, then for some reason a whole bunch showed up an hour after THAT too, and it was still going good.

VIOLA: One of the challenges we will face is the establishment wanting to have groups forming where they KNOW where they are, and can continue to run a government operation, the rich on top, etc., there. I suspect the citizens that go there will be the types who remain in denial too long, or are dependent and can be led around, but NOT the tough survival types.

SPOT: Control and ego.

VIOLA: Independent minded folks, who have long been planning or want their freedom ensured, will NOT go to these public type survival sites.

SPOT: That even sounds scary.


VIOLA: I would suspect that if large public camps build up, and are self sustaining food wise, that they could expect to have government troops as visitors JUST before the shift. The military would be fed, they would run the place, and be in communication with other such camps.

SPOT: That is a pretty sure bet.

VIOLA: But the small family groups, mobile and with a stash of supplies here and there, will NOT be a known entity and will NOT have their military visitors. Who would find them?

SPOT: I am 1/2 mile from an army base. I know for fact that the post is a maze of underground tunnels.

NORSEMAN: Interesting

VIOLA: Thus I want to continue to emphasize being independent, small, mobile, and NOT announcing to the world that a group is being formed, etc.


VIOLA: Let me ask you all this, do you think the way we handled the Group issues is comfortable? I do, and after you answer I'll tell you why.

SPOT: Yes.

VIOLA: Spot, tell me why.

SPOT: There are many good people who are scared and are not sure yet where to go. If we totally said NO. They would follow the wrong choice.

VIOLA: Good answer. It gives them an outlet at least, where they can talk to EACH OTHER.


VIOLA: Sojourner, what about you? Norseman?

SPOT: Instead of just "go away"

SOJOURNER: Sojourner doesn't quite knows about Groups subject. What happened?

VIOLA: Sorry, we had a list serve member state she thought no action was occurring on the list serve, as we should be talking about getting together in a central place, forming a group.

NORSEMAN: About the same answer as Spot gave, we gave people the freedom to make there choice. We point them to the fact that we ain't a cult etc.

VIOLA: She was very concerned about personal safety, in a semi-state of panic, I'd say. Up pops a couple more folks saying they too want to start forming a group, from different parts of the country.

SPOT: That would lead you right back to government control

VIOLA: Rather than let the list serve be used for this purpose, where it would inevitable be consumed with particulars about these arrangements, a court of law on disagreements, etc., we took a vote. The voting membership stated list serve could be used for no more than a notice. I created a Team icon and TOPIC called Groups, letting those wanting to coordinate post a letter there. This seemed to satisfy all.

SOJOURNER: I agree and I am thinking about technical possibilities for forming such a groups.

SPOT: With a disclaimer.

VIOLA: This is why I think it is a good solution. I think MOST folks taking the warning seriously will want to continue their current lifestyle or dependency mode. MOST are not strong enough to set up somewhere themselves, or multifaceted enough to deal with all the factors they need to. Gardening, sewage, computer technology, windmills, home medicine, etc.

SPOT: Some will hang around long enough to come to a correct decision.

VIOLA: MOST people will want to cling and be taken care of, also.

SOJOURNER: Viola: but how do you think such groups WILL form, when the time comes?

VIOLA: These are the ones who will be noisy and demanding as their panic rises. They will also be the ones who will go to government sponsored camps or know and announced camps. So, those Groups that post will find THESE types of folks are the ones wanting to join! They will leave the list serve, thinking of their own safety foremost, and leave us to our work.

SPOT: I think groups will just happen. Folks will have an "insight" as to where to go and who to talk to or not talk to.

JAM: I have an idea in helping the people in my area in preparing without them realizing that they are. I'm thinking about opening an OutPost with information and products and outreach programs in preparing for hard times coming. I live in a rural area and people here are very STO.

VIOLA: But the group that forms will only be self sufficient because of the vast numbers joining, and will be bereft with problems, I think. Sojourner, lets speculate a bit.


VIOLA: Most folks, I think, at the last minute, say 3 months ahead, will reach out to their friends and family and discuss this. This is why family or neighborhood sized groups are the most likely size.


VIOLA: They would do that also, even if planning ahead. They would talk to those friends they think would be good partners, or family members they care about and want to include, regardless.


VIOLA: What are the types that would migrate to a government camp or public camp taking all comers?

JAM: Maybe we can start a chain of OutPosts with this type of information available for everyone.

VIOLA: Those nobody else wants, for one thing, due to personality or problems of some kind, or maybe they take and never give, don't contribute, etc.

SPOT: And since they could not afford to take care of every one, will band together as a small group.

VIOLA: Sojourner, think of your situation, your personal situation. If you were going to set up somewhere for survival and life afterwards, would you write to those posting wanting to form a group in Nebraska, or would you approach trusted friends and family? Jam, how does this OutPost differ from TT? Not on the Internet?

SOJOURNER: Viola, I would do just that - approach friends and family. Viola, but I think that maybe would not be enough.

VIOLA: Sojourner, so now we have lots of folks getting their hands on non-hybrid seed, VitaminC tabs, windmill manufacturing companies can hardly keep up with the sales, etc. But the government doesn't have these folks REGISTERED, doesn't know where they intent to go!

ATOM: What do you mean by "not enough"?

NORSEMAN: The same for me, start with friends and family.

SOJOURNER: Viola, I think I should 'make' more friends before that.

VIOLA: Atom, maybe the family group lacks skills, like nobody knows how to put up a windmill or repair it, etc.

SOJOURNER: Viola, and that is because I think we would be more survivable as a group. That's my point exactly.

SPOT: Groups happen.

VIOLA: Sojourner, but the friends you'd approach, new friends, would be those who looked like they had skills and would contribute, etc.

VIOLA: For instance, those list serve members who talk about gardening and smelting will get LOTS of e-mail! My guess.

SOJOURNER: Viola, I mean I would not judge my new friends by that.

JAM: Yes, I have located a business site where I can lease space out to vendors that represent the same kind of services/products on the net. I will included a book section, computer access, bulletin board for counter areas, even a coffee shop. Something like a one-stop survival shop. Even set in up for bartering, service exchange, etc. Set it up so that it takes a life of its own.

VIOLA: Sojourner, but judge by STO mindset, etc.?

SPOT: I would judge my new friends as if they would eat my kids or not.

SOJOURNER: Viola, I just think that meeting more people with more knowledge would be fine. You know, I can start learn today and I will not know enough when the time comes.

CARRIE: That is quite some, Sojourner.

VIOLA: Carrie, we're talking about Groups, whether they will form from family and friends or cling to large Groups posting on TT or elsewhere, or government camps.,

SOJOURNER: Carrie, what do you mean?

VIOLA: Don't you think the government would like to have the populace migrating to know camps, where they can then move their troops and institute martial law, while having the troops fed!

CARRIE: I imagine that groups will form based on survival as a goal. It will include both family, friends and strangers. Whoever is attracted, will come.

VIOLA: I think such attempt to keep the government going will not fare well, due to human nature more than lack of preparation.

ATOM: Hm, some military folks have knowledge too. I would prefer a group of not so skilled friends that cooperate somehow than a super skilled military dictators, anyway.

CARRIE: Sojourner: I just meant that "if they would eat my kids" - that is pretty good. I like that criteria.

SOJOURNER: Atom, I agree with you.

VIOLA: You know, the thought crossed my mind that the reason the US is one of the few countries NOT agreeing to get rid of land mines is because they intent to have camps for the select few, not the masses!

CARRIE: There is no way that a government can survive the pole shift. It would be too fragmented - especially a government like that in the US which is already decentralized.

JAM: Even if the government did this before the shift, this will absolutely fall apart, because the death toll is going to be close to 90 percent.


VIOLA: By this I mean that the camps the military would take over at the last minute, or their own camps, they would put land mines around the edges so the folks that they didn't want to let in would be kept away! Blown up, and the rest discouraged and not try to approach.

SPOT: And others would not escape!!

VIOLA: Some government of the people and by the people - we'll blow you up with land mines we bought with your tax dollars if you try to talk to us or come near!

SOJOURNER: Viola, they don't need to sign or not to sign any agreement to still do that!

NORSEMAN: Right By the way are other world governments also planning this kind of things.. or?

VIOLA: Jam, I imagine that the troops will not be all that loyal, seeing the structure so lose and likely to fall.

JAM: Very little is going to survive.

SPOT: Yea, and like "I'm scared shitless, and if I can't control ya, I don't want ya"

VIOLA: Look at how quickly looting happens! As soon as the shop owners and police are distracted or not around, there it goes!

NORSEMAN: I mean, Atom, Sojourner and I are Europeans. Different situation.. or?

CARRIE: I think that soldiers will do what they have always done when facing a disaster - their personal survival becomes more important than the organization he/she serves.

VIOLA: Looting will be rampant, and soldiers will go AWOL looking for a better life, seeing that their generals can't catch them and are unlikely to be able to feed them for long.

JAM: Viola, are you talking about after the shift?

VIOLA: Norseman, I think you could expect the same thing to happen, due to personalities, everywhere. The ruling class will try to maintain their status, the generals are in all countries, control freaks in the main!


VIOLA: Jam: yes, and just before, the week before. I think for sure they will set up road blocks when the rotation stops, or even slightly before!

NORSEMAN: STS are everywhere..

VIOLA: Then all who want to pass, to go to their survival sites, will be stopped and questioned. No doubt they will have to take a soldier along, with a cell phone to contact his general when they get there!

SOJOURNER: And army is a 'natural' 911 in case of natural disasters. At least here it is!

WAFFLE: Is it just me or is everything you buy from the stores now big pieces of junk, perhaps this is telling us something.

VIOLA: Folks should expect to BE in their survival situations before hand, or have a route out not on the main roads, not even by car!

CARRIE: I don't think there is any way to keep the government from finding out where survival sites are.

NORSEMAN: Sojourner: about the same where I live.

CARRIE: I think we need to look at ways to make it work for us instead of focusing on the negative.

SOJOURNER: And people are used to GET HELP from army in such a situation ... Strange thing. They will go into lion's lair.


VIOLA: Maybe the roads from the major cities will be blocked, and only those they want to have in their sites, the ones the government considers good citizens for their new camps, will be allowed to pass.

WAFFLE: What does one do with machine guns and grenade launchers pointed at their camp?

CARRIE: For example, soldiers can work. They can fare. They have talents that could be used in a survival site. They are people, after all.

JAM: I don't think there are going be enough of them to go around to stop anybody!

VIOLA: In this way, they kill off those they don't want, just like the Art Bell caller stated! They want the die off in the major population centers!

SPOT: And the good citizens they don't want, they will eat.

JAM: There won't be enough around for them to eat!

VIOLA: By they way, I think that caller was a planted leak, not genuine, though the message was genuine. I think there is a great war behind the scenes, between those who want the populace warned and those control freaks who want martial law and their own butts protected and make comfy first and foremost.

NORSEMAN: Waffle: you know. Just be sure that they don't find it


VIOLA: Waffle: if they know where you camp is going to be, and if you foolishly set up ahead of time so your buildings and all could be spotted, they you're taken over. Period. Carrie, I'm not saying that soldiers would not make good partners, but if they are reporting to their general, then a whole other agenda is in place! That solider may be working, but his general will want servants, and YOU are the new tax payer, your sweat is the tax.

SOJOURNER: And a problem here where I live: our country can be bicycled in a day!? Where to put a camp and hide it?

ATOM: There are lots of places, believe me. :)

CARRIE: Chances are, that soldier will tell the general to screw himself after the pole shift

SOJOURNER: OK, Atom. We will have to do some field research sometimes :-))) !

VIOLA: Sojourner: I think the answer is to stay mobile. If you have mobility, and not set up until AFTER the shift, and be able to move.

SOJOURNER: Viola, I see.

JAM: I don't think that may even bother, people will be in denial right up to the shift. The cities will be first to die off almost immediately. Even if they tried to escape, all would be lost in the process. I don't the army will bother in keeping them in because they will be in there own safe places.

CARRIE: Right, Viola! I agree. It is best to have a plan, but stay flexible.

VIOLA: For instance, have a tent and supplies for fish tanks and hydroponics and windmill in boxes. Set the tent up the week before, or no tent if folks are looking.

VIOLA: Hide the boxes!

NORSEMAN: Important to stay flexible

VIOLA: After the shift, see where the gangs are, if the military is on the move, and set up tents and food production in a hidden or low profile manner. If it looks like you've been spotted, MOVE! Like the Arabs, folks your tent and steal away!

JAM: After the shift, we will be immersed in rain, aftershocks, darkness for a long period of time. Travel will be close to impossible for at least up to a year!

NORSEMAN: It won't be a constant moving, right?

WAFFLE: I think keeping moving would make most sense at least at first, until groups can form to defend themselves. At least then they'd have a sporting chance.

JAM: No one is going to be moving anywhere!

VIOLA: If you think you've been spotted by good guys, form a larger group! This way large STO communities will form, and will be able to defend themselves from military or STS takeover.

SPOT: That is what will happen.

NORSEMAN: Right, Viola

VIOLA: Small groups forming from family and friends should be mobile, and only settle when they see they have a good place and good neighbors.

VIOLA: They should at least be PREPARED to be mobile.

WAFFLE: the government might not care as much about rounding up singulars or groups of two, the government's delusions of grandeur might lead them to the large groups first.

NORSEMAN: Isn't it so that after some decades (some time) new cities will be build ?

CARRIE: In reality, most survivors will be stunned by the immensity of the disasters. They will have wounds to care for. The dead to dispose of. I really don't think people are going to care too much about the government/military afterwards - just based on my observations of trauma victims and their families.

SPOT: It may surprise you to find out how many "Generals" will disappear after the pole shift.

VIOLA: Certain locations are foolish to begin with. For instance, a few miles out from a large city. What would one expect except a constant stream of rag-tag survivors, at least half of them self focused enough to not care about YOU at all!

JAM: Norseman, that depends upon what the 4th dimension holds for us.

VIOLA: It could overwhelm a group, the numbers arriving and the fighting and take over attempts.

NORSEMAN: Think you're right, Jam.. But there are people who see buildings (glass) .. you know what I mean?

VIOLA: Spot, I expect they will be red in the face and yelling a lot, and no one much listening to them :-). They will self destruct, have strokes, etc. The generals will.

JAM: Were talking about only 10 percent of the human population surviving.

SPOT: They will die at the hands of their own troops.

VIOLA: Spot, they saying is that an army moves on its stomach, meaning if you don't feed me, I go AWOL, I leave!

SPOT: They will pull the thorn from their foot.

VIOLA: More than food and housing, I think that infighting will bring them down. Historically, the reason the Jews escaped from the Egyptians, was because the soldiers were not jumping to the generals demands! The first order of business for control freaks is to reestablish control! Meanwhile, the Jews walked away, old women and toddlers and all!

CARRIE: Basically, military personnel are mercenary - they get paid for what they do. If they don't get paid - they won't work. There is no general that will be able to keep soldiers without paying them!

ATOM: I guess army is not such a problem. It is a prefect hierarchy in peaceful times, but usually fall apart in war/heavy times, over time. I guess army will be less and less a problem, as time after the pole shift passes.

SPOT: The soldiers will be in battle, so to speak. And will have the perfect opportunity to dispose of the ones they did not want around in the first place. The General.

SOJOURNER: Just a thought? What about fighting between governments?

JAM: Viola, there probably won't be anything left for them to control.

NORSEMAN: Sojourner: that could happen, all kind of things could happen

WAFFLE: I'd like to think some of the soldiers are decent enough to ditch the army and help others instead or do so even while staying in the army if that's possible

VIOLA: Look at the politics in an office. How much energy is spent trying to be the boss, suck up to the boss, take someone else's work and put another's name to it, beat out the competition, etc. 50% of the effort, in many cases, is spent on political games!

SPOT: They will

JAM: Waffle, I'm afraid soldiers are too brain-washed to go that way.

VIOLA: So what will happen if the structure of government, the ability of the police or the courts to follow what is happening, goes away?

SOJOURNER: Norseman: A little movement around and we could get a mix of 5 governments in our region.

WAFFLE: It depends on what level of soldier and what they do. I would think. Never mind it :)

VIOLA: Like looting, all those inclined will say, "Hey, whose to know or stop me!" and how much obedience will there be? Not much! The generals will find themselves ordering nobody and nothing!

ATOM: Sojourner, this is what we need to count on, but I guess more before the pole shift than after it, I'm afraid.

VIOLA: Waffle, yes, that's another issue that I was talking about before you joined. The military is composed, in the main, by enlistees who are looking for a big parent!

NORSEMAN: That could happen Sojourner, it's a possibility.

VIOLA: Same is true of government worker, who expect that THEY will be fed and get their pay check no matter what happens.

SPOT: Yea, I need a job, so join the military.

WAFFLE: Possibly

VIOLA: They are security conscious to a great degree, in spite of tough talk by soldiers who are all muscles and grim looks. Babies in disguise!

SPOT: That's for sure!

WAFFLE: I read a book about people in Vietnam standing around waiting for something to happen. they wanted to fight real bad for some action, etc. pretty bizarre. (Waffle laughs at Viola)

VIOLA: Remember the Mir problem recently? They were having a lot of physical problems, energy sources failing, etc., and one of the Russians had heart palpitations, didn't want to proceed with an out-of-the-hatch job that was pending for him.

JAM: Just, maybe, all people are going to realize the truth of the matter, that they are alone, that the government is not what they expect it to be and take appropriate steps in surviving or not.

SPOT: Most of them ARE babies, so to speak. They are mostly about 17-25.

WAFFLE: That makes me a babe, although I have no intention of joining the military.

VIOLA: Don't you think this Russian astronaut was chosen because he was TOUGH! He got scared, and was looking for excuses, when it got REALLY tough up there. This is what will happen. The generals will be expecting the posts to be manned in the manner of today. If several leave their posts, or don't function because they are distracted or crying or whatever, then the whole chain of command FAILS! This is what I predict.

JAM: Geez, gotta go feed the kids. Mommy mommy we're hungry!

WAFFLE: I got this REAL REAL bad version of poison (ivy? oak?) that just SUCKED, and the only thing that would relieve the itch until I could get to the doctor to get Prednizone was this power stuff called Domeboro. it works great, and would be something you might want to horde a bunch of for various things.

VIOLA: Jam, I think the danger is that folks won't realize until too late, and may find themselves with unwanted guests! Road blocks during the last week, "where are you going and take this soldier with you" when folks try to get to their survival sites.

WAFFLE: You mix the power with water and let the solution dry on your skin.

NORSEMAN: I never heard about that Waffle, about Domeboro.

ATOM: Just reported. Another quake in Italy, between 6 and 7 Richter.

NORSEMAN: Again. More then a week now.

ATOM: 2 weeks, I guess.

SOJOURNER: And in Taiwan.

WAFFLE: Norseman the stuff works better than anything, I had severe poisoning something and almost went to the emergency room because the itch was so severe. but I got that stuff and slept like a baby that night

ATOM: I'm interested in will USGS report it, or again label it as 5.9, just that they need not to send a notice?

NORSEMAN: We have to look on alt.future.millennium etc.

ATOM: Taiwan?

NORSEMAN: What happened over there, Sojourner

SOJOURNER: Atom, did you any research on Earth heat moving tectonic plates.


SOJOURNER: In Taiwan? I heard about an earthquake in the morning on the radio.

NORSEMAN: Didn't heard or read about it yet

SOJOURNER: Sorry, I don't remember the exact data, but it was over 5.

ATOM: Italy, and Pacific ring seems active.

ATOM: First was Alaska, than Indonesia - the opposite sides. Then Tokyo, and now Taiwan. Is California next?

NORSEMAN: Especially Italy. Or?

SOJOURNER: Atom, I think I will start packing an emergency pack.

ATOM: Opposite side of Italy, counting fault lines, is US. Sojourner!

WAFFLE: Is St Louis a bad place to be? There is a fault nearby, sorta but it never does much

ATOM: I wonder if there's any shaking in Bosnia. It was never reported during last years, as there's a war. But would indicate movements, I guess.

SOJOURNER: Atom, there is an article in the newspaper about natural disasters.

ATOM: Uh, another. Looks like they're on track. Can you bring it tomorrow?

SOJOURNER: There was a quake in Messina, Sicily, Italy two years ago.

ATOM: Then was one in Montenegro, a little later. Opposite side.

SOJOURNER: It states that the people of Messina had 400 times bigger chance to get killed than people from San Francisco in 1906. And you know why?

ATOM: Why?


NORSEMAN: Yes.. Why?

SOJOURNER: Solely because of building structure/material. San Francisco used mainly wood, Messinans mainly stone. It is the material available around.

ATOM: Yes. Stone is heavier, may kill you. Wood is not so problematic.

SOJOURNER: It is in fact an introduction to the book from Ernest Zebrowski: Perils of a restless planet.

WAFFLE: I'm upsets me that new buildings are build rather like those made in the 1700's. there's so many modern things like dome you can do to make housing safer in case of disasters tornadoes etc.

ATOM: But now, I guess, people in San Francisco have more chances to be killed. If you fall from 105th floor, huh

WAFFLE: Really..

SOJOURNER: :-) I am even afraid of 2nd floor I am on.

NORSEMAN: I understand.. that Sojourner :)

WAFFLE: I'm in a basement

SOJOURNER: Counting other 3 above me :-)

ATOM: Those other 3 are more problematic than 2 below. I'm in second, but have only roof above.

WAFFLE: I guess the idea with rectangle houses is that you can squeeze more together, but couldn't you squeeze domes together if you just arranged them weird.


WAFFLE: If I'm in or near a city, am I completely doomed? :) Like if I were to stay here, etc.

NORSEMAN: You looked at the safe area page, safe places ?

WAFFLE: Although there's only 1 person that actually believes the things I tell him, so.

SOJOURNER: Hmm? I could ask the same for myself.

WAFFLE: Didn't know there was one, only saw people talk about it on the list a little. I'll look now.

NORSEMAN: I have to move, to bad, but I have to move.

SOJOURNER: I think leaving city would be best to do even long before the actual shift. Counting earthquakes. But WHEN?

NORSEMAN: I think you're right, Sojourner.. But it has to be his own decision.

WAFFLE: Good question

NORSEMAN: Yes, when?

SOJOURNER: Yes, of course. I was talking for myself.

NORSEMAN: But the same counts for most people I think

WAFFLE: It is very hot in St Louis for October. I think it as at least 80 degrees yesterday. I wonder if it has to do with anything

NORSEMAN: When is the right time to move.

WAFFLE: Fahrenheit We're too stupid to use the metric system in the US.

SOJOURNER: When? Hmm. What would make me to leave my present work, life style.

NORSEMAN: Waffle: I think it has to do with the pole shift, a sign.

WAFFLE: Although they teach it religiously in school, for some reason. I thought so also. It doesn't seem THAT weird, but looking back I can't remember when it's been 80 degrees in October. Very bizarre.

NORSEMAN: Waffle: last week, Monday it was about 21 degrees Celsius where I live.. Already autumn.

SOJOURNER: And here 24C too! Strange. We call it Indian Summer!

WAFFLE: Is that hot for you? I don't know Celsius scale compared to Fahrenheit that well

NORSEMAN: Waffle: for October it was.

WAFFLE: Indian Summer :) heh

SOJOURNER: Of course. It could be snowing too. But usually it is 10 degrees lower.

WAFFLE: I think the real test is if the winter goes through with no snow. It ALWAYS snows at least some in St Louis. Well just hearing you all having hot October must mean something at least

WAFFLE: Not just regional, and St Louis is right smack in the middle of all the North American weather regions.

SOJOURNER: My colleague at work said: no squirrel stole any nut this year. It will be a mild winter :-)!

WAFFLE: It often snows in October in St. Louis, which is why it's weird.

NORSEMAN: Waffle: the temperature has dropped now where I live, around 14 degrees Celsius

NORSEMAN: once got this message from Spot: To find degrees Celsius, subtract 32 from degrees Fahrenheit and divide by 1.8. To go the other way, multiply degrees Celsius by 1.8 and add 32.

WAFFLE: I just don't know what to do about being in the city. There's just so any people!

SOJOURNER: There is a feature on El Nino on CNN in Wednesday, here in Europe.


SOJOURNER: Another global warming commercial :) !?

NORSEMAN: Sojourner: when?

SOJOURNER: Wed, 10 AM. But please, check it out.

WAFFLE: Do you think 'they' will use the global warming idea as justification for the higher temperatures?

NORSEMAN: I will look at it, Sojourner. if I don't forget it.

SOJOURNER: Really, guys. What signs are you waiting for to get MOVING?

WAFFLE: I don't know what to do at the moment.

SOJOURNER: Waffle, yes. What else can they say?

NORSEMAN: Neither do I.

SOJOURNER: The same here. I just hope some shaking does not comes first knocking on my door.

WAFFLE: I hate to just wait, but in a city with so many people and places it just seems overwhelming. I think I might have to give it more time.

WAFFLE: When you put it in perspective the chances of survival are grim no matter how you slice it, but giving more time might help me make wiser choice.

NORSEMAN: I think that I will move to Sweden, didn't made the final decision yet, but Sweden seems like a good choice for me.

WAFFLE: And just getting info into my head like this might help a ton, also

SOJOURNER: I have an interesting topic for the next chat.

NORSEMAN: Okay. And that's ?

SOJOURNER: Internet - information overflow. Could it be that only now we can track all the data coming in? I mean, could this information overflow be responsible for our, thinking about incoming changes. Do you know what I think?

NORSEMAN: Yes I understand, but it's not the reason that I think this way. It only proofs that what is going to happen, will actually happen. Right?

SOJOURNER: Yes. We have a mean of collecting much more information than years before. Coming from all over the world.

NORSEMAN: That's right.

SOJOURNER: But someone could argue.

NORSEMAN: Like Italy etc.