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icon 09-Feb-97

Note: it is a general Troubled Times policy to change the names of IRC participants to screen names and remove personal discussions that occurred during the chat in the interests of privacy.

NORSEMAN: Carrie: interesting info you found about therapeutic touch etc.. Does it work with the natural energies of the human body?

YULARA: The email on therapeutic touch was good but incomplete - many methods of energy healing. It's good stuff - been doing it since 1980.

NORSEMAN: Yulara: and it works..

YULARA: Some methods work on the body, some in the etheric body. You can also affect the astral body (chakras). Angelic assistance is very frequent as well. You are not using your own energy, you use THE energy.

NORSEMAN: Yulara: I know what you mean..

YULARA: That's the main skill I have for the times ahead - sure don't know nothin' 'bout survivalist stuff, but want to learn.

YULARA: So relate, are the Netherlands supposed to remain or be gone in 2003? And are you going to move?

NORSEMAN: The Netherlands will be gone, some I am planning to move.

YULARA: That's an act of faith with respect to the everyday consensual reality, isn't it? Takes bravery and the courage of convictions.

SHADOW: Norseman, yeah I know

YULARA: Are you telling anyone why? Or just making quiet plans?

NORSEMAN: Yulara: it's also my feeling, intuition that the pole shift will happen, I can't call it believing. Some know it. But not everyone.

SHADOW: None of us tell anyone where we will go before the pole shift. We will all know mentally.

YULARA: Like many, my profession is city-tied - would take a BIG shift in my life to get to a safe place - my location is relatively OK, but I may have a beach in my backyard.

SHADOW: Can't drink all that water, so I remain inland.

NORSEMAN: Agree with Shadow. Maybe near a river.

YULARA: Are you folks establishing or thinking about joining a community, or going it alone? Shadow, hope you're out of the flood plain.

SHADOW: I am. I will probably go it alone considering I have many jobs to get done during that time.

YULARA: I'm sort of divided about whether I want to be at proverbial "ground zero" or really work at surviving these times - after all the soul is immortal. However, it's really karma that decides - if you already agreed to stay here and help, you'll stay here and help.

SHADOW: I know all about the soul Yulara.

CARRIE: Yulara: how did find out about Troubled Times?

YULARA: No problem, it's OK. Back to the soul - the Zetas seem to agree with this - karmic orientation about staying. However, I have not tapped into this, so don't know yet for myself. Zetatalk

NORSEMAN: Yulara: and what do you think about it, if I might ask?

CARRIE: I don't know if any of us will be around after the PS. I figure that my job right now is help prepare those who will survive.

SHADOW: I think we will be around Carrie.

YULARA: Troubled Times? Great concept - most people, I guess, can't really have meaningful discussions about this with their friends - they don't want to think about it.

SHADOW: You and I escort the people from what I see and what you have said.

NORSEMAN: Shadow: I think so to, Carrie, people will need our experience ! :) Agree?

CARRIE: Personally, I don't want to survive the pole shift. I don't even want to be here now. But I screwed up somewhere and doing time on Planet Earth is my sentence. :)

SHADOW: Yes, doing time. I think we are all doing time right now.

YULARA: I can relate - pretty limiting place, this earth. We have a duty to be cheerful - I mean that exactly as I say it.

SHADOW: I just have a job to do and will be glad when its done.

CARRIE: I think we will go along with whatever our mission - or karma - dictates. I don't worry about it.

CARRIE: Shadow: you and I will be stewardesses! :)

YULARA: Do some of you know your "jobs?" I'm working on that issue right now.



SHADOW: I got my sexy little suit, do you? Just kidding.

YULARA: Don't put it on for the Mad Max gangs.

SHADOW: Yeah, I know that

CARRIE: Yes, I do, complete with inflatable boobs, sis!

SHADOW: Oh, did you go to tit busters?

NORSEMAN: Shadow, Lyn: ??? :)

SHADOW: This is just a joke between me and Carrie.

CARRIE: Oh no, sis! Here we go again. After all, it is Sunday morning.

SHADOW: Yes it is

NORSEMAN: I know :) Shadow.

SHADOW: I hope no one gets offended when me and Carrie talk. We are like one.

NORSEMAN: Shadow: I know, and I don't get offended.. :)

SHADOW: Norseman though knows us two. We can really get down.

CARRIE: We think and act alike. When we met, in person, it was like we had always known each other. We didn't have to say much - we already knew.

SHADOW: Anyway, we will get back to the subject

SHADOW: That's for sure Carrie

CARRIE: OK! Welcome to our little group, Yulara.

NORSEMAN: Yulara: My job is helping people to survive etc., that's what I feel

YULARA: How are you doing this, Norseman?

CARRIE: I'll have many things to do, but my main focus will be medical care, or the lack thereof.

NORSEMAN: Yulara: that isn't easy to explain. It something I know.

YULARA: Stocking up on medicines, what a great idea - wish I had an in with a pharmacy.

CARRIE: Stocking up on meds will not do much good. First, they will probably be destroyed during the PS. Second, most have expiration dates.

NORSEMAN: I agree with Carrie. And that's why on Troubled Times their are links and info about natural ways of healing.

YULARA: True - I'm going to get homeopathic since have no access to medicines. Maybe, again, a moot point.

CARRIE: Homeopathic meds require plants, etc. Where are you going to get those? Also preparing these meds takes equipment such as burners, beakers, extractors, etc.

NORSEMAN: Some say that homeopathic doesn't work.. But I think it works.. Less side affects etc.

SHADOW: The knowledge to heal oneself and others will be most important at that point.

SHADOW: I think Carries method is a good one. I know that I can usually heal myself.

NORSEMAN: Shadow: agree, maybe people will go to paranormal healers, aura healing etc. Those kind of people.

YULARA: No, just stock up and think about the near term. If the world is gloomy and rainy for years, many of us will probably get TB or something - can't plan for everything for the possible rest of our lives.

CARRIE: Not to mention, it takes homeopathic doctors years of studies to get the right chemicals into balance with each other. If something is out of balance, a patient could die.

YULARA: Energy healings can work on everything but major wounds, however, viruses are tough. One of my friends is a well-known master healer, and he has cured cancer but not the common cold.

NORSEMAN: Agree with Carrie, some homeophatic medicines does have some poison in them, not that much, but.

CARRIE: I think that healers after the pole shift will be in tune with others bodies so that they will intuitively know what in the environment will be good for that particular person.

CARRIE: Also, I think there will be ET assistance also.

YULARA: True - guess we have to allow for expanded awareness and ET assistance.

NORSEMAN: Carrie: I think you are right, and perhaps you will be a healer yourself.

SHADOW: I think so too.

NORSEMAN: Carrie: by doing the call etc., they will give advice.

CARRIE: We must remember that the whole planet - and all its life forms - will be going through a transition from the 3rd density to the 4th. That means we will have energies available to us that we have not had before.

SHADOW: Once energy healing has worked for the inside, then it is only a matter of time for the outside to heal such as larger wounds.

NORSEMAN: Carrie: but according to ZetaTalk it will not happen directly after the pole shift, there has to be a balance.

CARRIE: Not every condition will be healed. There will be many dying from diseases, such as TB, sepsis, pneumonia, etc.

YULARA: Unless the person bleeds to death - sometimes, time is of the essence with first aid. Body must sustain life to be healed.

SHADOW: Yes this is true.

CARRIE: Very true!

YULARA: Everyone wants to be in that long line for a peaceful death, or failing that, an instantaneous and painless one.

NORSEMAN: Agree Carrie

NORSEMAN: Yes, it seems no one want's to die a painful dead.

CARRIE: The real losers in the pole shift will be those that survive long enough to die a long and painful death.


SHADOW: There will be many of them.

CARRIE: Yet, through modern medical care, people choose a long and painful death.

YULARA: I think about that - so it gets back to, there is a rational point of view that says "don't bother to prepare" except emotionally and spiritually.

CARRIE: Took care of one the other day, like that.

CARRIE: Right Yulara!

ATOM: Hope, this time line stays.

CARRIE: But we must have a blueprint of physical survival also.

NORSEMAN: Carrie: agree, physical survival is also important.

SHADOW: Well, if no plans are made except spiritually and emotionally, you are limiting your sources

CARRIE: This is very difficult as we do not know what our resources will be. Personally, if I survive, I want to be near a body of water. Water has fish!

NORSEMAN: Carrie: right

YULARA: Unless the water heats up past their natural range - personally, I favor large supplies of the Bahamian diet as a fallback to sustain life.

CARRIE: With all the moist, damp climate, there will be plenty of mold. Mold = penicillin.

SHADOW: That's right.

NORSEMAN: Carrie: good thinking of you! :)

YULARA: Penicillin would be a supreme barter item.

NORSEMAN: Carrie: but how to create penicillin from mold? Or is it easy?

SHADOW: I had read the process once. Will have to refresh my memory on that.

CARRIE: I don't know. Could not find anything in my pharmacy books. Maybe, just eating it.

SHADOW: No, there's a process.

NORSEMAN: Carrie: perhaps, maybe you could read about it.

SHADOW: There is a part of the mold you use and a part you throw away.

NORSEMAN: Shadow: think it's a good idea to find info about that process and put it on the Troubled Times web site.

CARRIE: It is bread mold.


SHADOW: I think the green part you keep and the blackish you throw away, but not sure no more.

SHADOW: I'll have to check it out again. It's been many years.

NORSEMAN: Shadow: Yes do that, when the library is open I will also try if I will find info about it.


CARRIE: Somehow one needs to protect the spores so that the saliva does not destroy them.

CARRIE: Okay, sounds good. I won't have much time to research much of anything during the next 10 weeks.

SHADOW: Yeah, I know.

SHADOW: If anyone finds it, we will forward it to Troubled Times.


SHADOW: Of course.

SHADOW: We are good sis :)

CARRIE: I know that many weeds will survive - including marijuana.

NORSEMAN: Shadow: if I find something I will translate it into English.


NORSEMAN: Carrie: marijuana? ;)

SHADOW: Marijuana can be a pain killer, if you know what I mean.

NORSEMAN: Shadow: I know what you mean.

CARRIE: If I knew what weeds would survive, besides pot, I could do some research into how to use them safely for meds.


YULARA: Smokin' dope will help with attitude :)

SHADOW: I gotcha ya.

NORSEMAN: Shadow: but it is a soft-drug. But if it could help people survive the pole shift.

SHADOW: I will need much huh?

CARRIE: Along with Viola's wine.

SHADOW: Wow. We will be high forever.

YULARA: I'll add wine to my list - never thought of that.

SHADOW: Can't do that.


SHADOW: Wine would also eliminate some pain.

CARRIE: Viola has a dynamite recipe for wine.


CARRIE: Grape juice, water, sugar.

SHADOW: Oh boy, here we go again then huh.

CARRIE: She and I both use the same server. I ran into a shitload of bots earlier.

SHADOW: Someone certainly doesn't want Viola to get in huh.

CARRIE: Here we go again!


CARRIE: Damn! I hate when this happens.

YULARA: This has happened before? Viola's being blocked on a server?

NORSEMAN: Shadow: perhaps, you know who and his friends.

SHADOW: I thought trouble would start once I got that letter. Yes Yulara. Yes Norseman. Or the government.

NORSEMAN: Shadow: first our last disrupter, and now this. They are really busy.

SHADOW: Its one or the other.

ATOM: Viola is back on IRC, hold your fingers crossed.


CARRIE: Once I hit those bots after being disconnected, I knew something was us.

CARRIE: I'll be logging off soon since I have a 11 am appointment somewhere. I bet she will be able to get on when I get off. Worked that way the last time.

SHADOW: But if they are trying to keep her off, she may not get in. There she is.

CARRIE: Hey Viola! We were just talking about you and wondering if you had problems getting in this am?

SHADOW: Troubles huh?

VIOLA: I think the troubles were on my end.

CARRIE: Ran into some bots on this end.

VIOLA: My Netscape Catche was over 5 MB. I killed it.

VIOLA: I think Netcom was searching the Catche too much and having errors.

CARRIE: Netcom disconned me and would not let me log back on. When I did, ran into the bots.

VIOLA: Have you guys set an agenda?

SHADOW: Healing mostly, during the pole shift.

CARRIE: We were talking about healing.

NORSEMAN: Viola: We talked about healing.

YULARA: Energy healing, penicillin, marijuana.

SHADOW: And wine

YULARA: And your wine recipe.

VIOLA: I have an e-mail penpal who talks about setting up tents around where the big cities WERE, as medical stations.

SHADOW: This would be after the pole shift right?

VIOLA: I told him I didn't think the government would be very effective, that private efforts had to be done.

NORSEMAN: Viola: that's a good idea, more or less.

CARRIE: That would be great except where would the medical supplies be kept?

VIOLA: Of course, I don't think big organized efforts are going to succeed either.

NORSEMAN: small groups, maybe 20 people.

VIOLA: You know, the Jewish Exodus tells us a lot of about what happens when truly huge catastrophes hit.

ATOM: Big efforts will simply attract to much STS folks.

SHADOW: Right. And they will be out there for sure.

VIOLA: The Jews were slaves, yet they were allowed to walk away, all those miles, old women and little babies, the lame and sick too.

CARRIE: Also, when a link in a big organized effort fails, the whole project fails.

VIOLA: They got that far because the guards that normally watch them were occupied with the pole shift and all. Just imagine for a minute what a guard would be thinking! Right away he'd worry about his home, his wife and kids, and his own safety.

NORSEMAN: Viola: he will think about his family etc.

SHADOW: That would be only human

VIOLA: Many will be in shock, mentally, and just stare or cower in the corner or run without thinking.

SHADOW: Many will be thinking this.

VIOLA: Same thing happens during a fire, panic and not thinking.

SHADOW: Those who did not plan anyway. Right.

SHADOW: Where if time is set aside for planning, things work out much better.

CARRIE: Definitely!

VIOLA: So if the government assigns their folks to be here or there, manning telephones or whatever, I think most of those spots WON'T be manned!

SHADOW: Maybe not 100% better but at least a bit better.

NORSEMAN: Viola: Yes, but fires can come unexpected if people will prepare themselves for the pole shift there is less reason that they will get into shock.

VIOLA: Then after these guys fail in their duty, they will go AWOL rather than be punished.



VIOLA: Plus they'd probably think that the government can't get organized to come after them. That's for sure!


VIOLA: Absent Without Leave = AWOL

SHADOW: You know, a few years ago I had received a card, so did my family, where as if a catastrophe hit, you were to call a number so you could be located and counted for during this time. I thought it was very strange. Still have that card.

VIOLA: I suspect that there will be SOME people who don't panic, keep their heads, as there are those people now.


VIOLA: The government tests folks for these qualities, I know that, for special forces, etc.

NORSEMAN: Shadow: because of control. I think they send you, family that card for control. Who knows.


VIOLA: Shadow, not me. Have any others gotten such a card?

CARRIE: Not me

SHADOW: I don't know. Its a brightly colored card - pink. I would think all lines would be down during that time.

VIOLA: Who issued it? The state, the US, who?

SHADOW: The state of NJ

NORSEMAN: Shadow: Yes, so who to call?

SHADOW: The government.

VIOLA: Lots of times during chaos a natural leader emerges, takes charge, etc.

SHADOW: I keep it. They said don't go no where without it. You're to keep it in your back pocket is what they said.

NORSEMAN: Viola: Agree.

VIOLA: But you don't live in NJ anymore :-).

SHADOW: No, but my parents were told to send it to me. ?????

VIOLA: Long-Bow seems to think that groups will organize, funded by private industry, etc. I wonder if that will occur? Do you suppose that in that last year, that there will be some of that?

SHADOW: I've got it right here. It says on top; EMERGENCY CARD. And then it says: HOW TO COMMUNICATE.

VIOLA: Some NJ clerk wanted to ease their job after an earthquake or tidal wave or bomb or whatever!

SHADOW: It is a voice mail thing.

VIOLA: You know, they always run around trying to find out if people are accounted for or not. If you phone in, their job is easier.

SHADOW: California number and then the rest of the US.

NORSEMAN: Viola: maybe it will be groups of STS people or? Maybe they will say we will fund you, without saying 'now you are easy to locate'.


VIOLA: The government and private industry is in a quandary over the pole shift.

SHADOW: I wouldn't call it, that's for sure.

VIOLA: If they tell folks, they fear panic, folks just running wild, not paying taxes, clogging the streets, injuring each other and themselves, etc.

VIOLA: So if private industry or the government started storing medical supplies in places around big cities, the word might get out and then panic. But the government does a lot of that kind of think, they don't have to explain how they use their military bases, etc.

SHADOW: I know, boy do I know.

VIOLA: This friend of mine wants to do paternalistic things for folks, take care of them, plan for all the folks, etc.

SHADOW: That sounds good

VIOLA: I tell him the best is if we empower self help among folks, as this has more hands helping than sitting around waiting to be taken care of.

ATOM: Planing for all folks is of no use

NORSEMAN: Yes that sounds good, agree.

ATOM: Many will not want to live anyway when their world changes.

NORSEMAN: Atom: agree.

SHADOW: Yes, true

VIOLA: Suicide will be easy, just sit and don't eat and after a bit, you're dead!


VIOLA: I think not drinking water takes you down in 3 days, too.

SHADOW: Yes it does. You have to have at least water to survive.

NORSEMAN: Agree with you Viola.

SHADOW: So, not drinking any would surely do it.

VIOLA: I think this friend of mine forgets that most operations like that, where there is big rescue, those doing the rescue are feeling secure, themselves.

NORSEMAN: Shadow: water is important.

SHADOW: Big rescues will definitely bring STS.

VIOLA: Dehydration kills. But then, drinking the water that may be contaminated with sewage spills will kill too!


VIOLA: The STS will try to steal the supplies when those who are to guard them are in a panic, I'm sure.

SHADOW: I think though, once everything is in place, your friend might have a chance at doing his thing.

NORSEMAN: Viola: so it will be a catch-22, if people don't boil the water first?

VIOLA: But outside of STS maneuvers, think about rescue operations, don't the rescuers feel secure? We have NO experience where the rescuers are in a panic, too!


ATOM: Rescuers are usually in hurry, but they should not panic.

SHADOW: That's very true. If they are in panic, forget it.

VIOLA: Fire fighting, for instance. The fire fighters know THEIR home and family are safe, so they can concentrate on their job.


VIOLA: If a fire fighter finds that THEIR home is next door, wouldn't they be tempted to go there and make sure all is safe, deserting their job?

NORSEMAN: We are now talking about all kind of theories, how to help. But the real thing we will experience when it will happen.

SHADOW: But with everything in such a mess, rescuers would be emotionally effected, at least for the time being.

VIOLA: That's another reason that small groups will be more effective. In the first place, they all know each other and their limitations.

NORSEMAN: But it will be different when the pole shift happen. We are no fire fighters.

SHADOW: Yes, true Norseman.

ATOM: I believe that all folks should be informed, that's where we're now. But taking care of everyone is of no use.

VIOLA: In the second place, the natural reaction to see if one's own possessions and loved ones are OK would help, rather than hurt, the effort.

SHADOW: Just keeping people from drinking contaminated water will be a mess in itself.

VIOLA: Atom: agree, informing folks is where we're at.

NORSEMAN: Viola: agree.

VIOLA: And developing solution sets that folks can use, and use EASILY.

ATOM: If people know what's coming they can prepare even if not directed from "above".

VIOLA: I was thinking about that recently, that at a certain point in Troubled Times we need to categorize our solutions sets.


ATOM: Yes, if they know what's coming, how to prepare, that's all.

VIOLA: We have that in the Check Lists, where we say, pole shift (day one), immediately after, then long term.

ATOM: Only those who do not want to prepare then will suffer. But that's anyway true.


NORSEMAN: Viola: I read that..

SHADOW: Many will be partying and all. This will be the only way they can face this.

VIOLA: Atom: agree, informing first so folks are in the right mind, then solution sets that are handy for folks, that work for them.

ATOM: Shadow: their problem.


VIOLA: Shadow: agree, many will just say to themselves - end of the world!

NORSEMAN: Shadow: but I for sure will not party.

SHADOW: Right. I have heard this myself.

VIOLA: I get that a lot on e-mail, folks saying all will die, what's the use, etc.

SHADOW: I can't believe the ignorance that is out there.

NORSEMAN: Some people think that Troubled Times and ZetaTalk is about Doom, but it isn't. It's not the End

SHADOW: I get this everyday.

VIOLA: I tell them this has happened before, and Homo Sapiens lived! I think planning seems to overwhelming for them, so they just give up.

SHADOW: But then I also have many that listen. Have directed many to the Troubled Times pages.

ATOM: No wonder Zetas predict 90% will die.


VIOLA: If someone won't take care of them, well then what's the use of living. They are dependent types!

SHADOW: Yes they are, very dependent.

SHADOW: Don't know what to do if someone doesn't tell them, and then, will they listen, most of the time they won't. They want you to do it for them.

VIOLA: Atom: not 90% at first, but within weeks or days. Dirty water from sewage spillage, festering wounds, etc.

SHADOW: The government has gotten many very dependent on them.

NORSEMAN: I think that after April, when Hale-Bopp will not be visible much more people will start reading ZetaTalk and Troubled Times and will think about it.

ATOM: Viola: Yes, but this is the same. Consequences of no planning, mostly.

VIOLA: I remember a scene after the last big Japan earthquake. Some folks were sitting on the curb, just waiting to be rescued, waited for days and days, not moving!

SHADOW: Yes, this happens a lot. Instead of getting in there and doing for themselves, they wait.

VIOLA: Right now there was an article in the paper about Hale-Bopp. Said how to see it on the horizon.

SHADOW: Really

NORSEMAN: Shadow: they are in shock.

VIOLA: But you know, it is exactly over M71, a star cluster, and folks will think THAT to be Hale-Bopp.

SHADOW: Yes, many are, but many are dependent.

ATOM: This is mostly of our educational system. Most pupils are called stupid all the time instead of supported.

VIOLA: This article also said that Hale-Bopp is expected to cover 1/3 of the sky with its long tail.


ATOM: So they never learn to do it by themselves. To try.

SHADOW: Really Viola.

VIOLA: The excuse why there is no tail now, is that it is angled away from the Sun :-).

SHADOW: Yes Atom, I agree.

NORSEMAN: Viola: They will keep on trying, and now the story that Ed Dames told on Art Bell (read a bit about it)

SHADOW: And people believe this Viola. Why would the government steer them wrong.

VIOLA: But outside of the educational system, I think that many, if not most, people ARE dependent by nature.


VIOLA: Norseman, is this a recent story on Art Bell? Even people whom we think are very strong, down deep they may be dependent.

SHADOW: You know, when I speak of the government, they just stare at me and then state, the government is not like that. Very ignorant on their part.

NORSEMAN: Viola: Yes, if I am right.

SHADOW: True Viola

VIOLA: Take away their supports and you see them crumble, just sit and cry, make demands, etc.

SHADOW: Yes, instead of getting out there doing. There are a lot of takers out there.

VIOLA: Shadow: as much as anything, these people deny that the government is capable of a scam, as it scares them. They deny!

SHADOW: Boy do I know that

NORSEMAN: Shadow: agree.

VIOLA: The sequence is 1. I think about what Shadow said and it scares me, 2. I think about what to do if its true and have no solutions, 3. I think that its not true and feel better, 4. I can't believe its true!

VIOLA: My take on large organized efforts is that unless the rescuers are THEMSELVES feeling secure, their loved ones close by and safe, that these efforts will FAIL.

VIOLA: My take is that the military will find almost all their troops AWOL. Same with the government clerks and all - gone home or out running in a panic.

SHADOW: Oh yeah, but there will still be ones who demand order and all. They will be the ones to fear.

VIOLA: They are only functional because the underpinning of society are still in place, now.

SHADOW: For they have blood in their eyes. Control is their main order.

VIOLA: Generals will go to get into their helicopters and find someone else took the chopper already, etc.

NORSEMAN: Shadow: if they are STS yes, right.

SHADOW: I can now understand though, how large groups would be in jeopardy.

VIOLA: Or the fuel that was supposed to be there is gone, or the chopper not fueled so it crashes right away, that kind of thing.

SHADOW: Remember Viola how you said that large groups would be in trouble, well I know your right now.

VIOLA: Any rescue group has to know each other, be cohesive, and have their families with them, safe at the side.

SHADOW: And you also said about silence where you were gonna be. Well your right on that too

VIOLA: Atom: there will be lots of places that are unsafe, toward the end folks will want to vacate and move to safe areas!

VIOLA: We will come under pressure not to tell folks that their area will be devastated, like Japan, for instance.

VIOLA: Japan may say, oh Troubled Times doesn't know what they're talking about, because they don't want people leaving!

VIOLA: But the leaders will be leaving, just ahead of time, self serving their own interests, etc.

ATOM: Yes, toward the end all will want to migrate toward safe places.


VIOLA: Shadow: dealing with all these harassment issues that some of use experience either makes you stronger or breaks you! One of two ways.

SHADOW: That's why I decided to share my experience on Troubled Times. Letting them know what these people are capable of instead of keeping it to a single few on Troubled Times.

VIOLA: They say that the strongest metal goes through the hottest fire.

VIOLA: Shadow: you did right!

ATOM: Where safe places will be crowded, a little less safe place might be in order.

VIOLA: Atom: right!

VIOLA: Places like Sedona, NM, where everyone is already crowding in, or Colorado, might be too crowded.

SHADOW: Yes it would

NORSEMAN: Sedona, because of the UFO's etc.?

SHADOW: I hear tell of that. It is getting very crowded.

VIOLA: Basically, the best place is safe but not crowded, and a good distance from any big city too.


VIOLA: Survivors from the cities will be poorly prepared, so ALL will be dependent and may break the capacity of a survival group. Eat the seeds and the like, trying to take over in a panic. Then all will die or starve.

SHADOW: Survivors in cities will join forces and form gangs. That is the stronger ones will. It will be like mad dogs,

NORSEMAN: Shadow: what do you mean?

VIOLA: This sounds selfish, but unless the surviving group can actually survive, it's no help!

NORSEMAN: Stealing food, perhaps they will kill people for food.

VIOLA: The best is if surviving groups plan to seed others, who didn't plan, with how-to and fishlings and seed and the like.

SHADOW: The people left in cities will be like mad dogs. Fighting for survival and rummaging through the debris.

VIOLA: Be like a teaching and startup assistance for other groups that didn't plan. Not just take everyone in, adopt all who come, etc.

SHADOW: Yes, true. Can't take everyone in but can teach and send them on their way. Give them a starter kit or somewhat like that.

VIOLA: Cosmic is concerned that folks learn how to identify STS from STO so that groups don't get taken advantage of.

NORSEMAN: Shadow: agree.

VIOLA: A common type of ploy is to take an STO or a child and make them walk toward the survival camp, being pitiable.

SHADOW: Well for one, their eyes. I find a good thief or liar can look you dead in the eyes and even smile.

VIOLA: Then when the doors are open, the camp located, here come the bastard STS. Mad Max taking over!

SHADOW: Yes. true. They will use children. They will use anything that is of use to them.

VIOLA: We should probably work up scenarios, before the last year, talking about those types of scenarios, and how to best handle them.

SHADOW: Yes for sure

NORSEMAN: Shadow: I hope they will not use them, but as STS are untrustable liars, I think you are right.

SHADOW: People will need to know this to survive on their own.

VIOLA: For instance, I'd kidnap that little child or hostage away, take THEM to safety, and do the STS in if possible.


NORSEMAN: Viola: You make a good point about working up scenarios.

SHADOW: You will have to outwit them.

VIOLA: As they say, actions speak louder than words.

SHADOW: This is when your senses will have to be up to par.

VIOLA: Not what they say, but what they DO.


VIOLA: Those of us with good intuition can rely on that.

SHADOW: I have come across the most cunning lately.

VIOLA: Regarding our solution sets, I feel that some of the holes will get filled before the last year.

NORSEMAN: Cunning?

SHADOW: Smile, talk and then you get that feeling coming over your body not to trust them.

VIOLA: For instance, the bit about how to replace light bulbs, which is a dead end right now. I think the solutions will emerge! Also Vitamin C not from plants, for those folks who don't have light to grow plants, etc.

SHADOW: I think someone will come up with an idea about that. If not now, someone will be sent to us. That's how it usually happens.

VIOLA: There should be solution sets for just small family, larger group, and even organized like a small town.

NORSEMAN: Viola: we will find a solution.. Maybe if more people will join Troubled Times, it might be that their will be a person that knows the answer (not one that will say that only he knows the answer).


VIOLA: Then there will be solutions sets for other countries, other cultures, taking their different ways and habits into account.

SHADOW: Well, families would eventually take on more and would become larger groups and then finally a small town would form.

VIOLA: We're so international right now, this will be a natural course for Troubled Times.

NORSEMAN: Viola: Agree, a natural course.


VIOLA: Shadow: right, so that they can print off and keep our solutions sets, plan for when they get larger, etc.

VIOLA: I also think that many solutions from other cultures will become popular.

SHADOW: Yes they will

VIOLA: For instance, eating bugs is done in other countries, not US, but it's a great solution! We've adopted it in a big way!

SHADOW: We learn from other culture for they don't have what we do.

VIOLA: We're getting so many new members. I checked the other day and there were about 4 new members.

SHADOW: Really

VIOLA: Over 30 now, closer to 40.

SHADOW: Hey, how do I find out the members anyway, a members list?

VIOLA: I think we can expect this list to be up around 100 or 200 by year end.


NORSEMAN: Viola: Yes, we can expect that.

SHADOW: How do I do a who's who thing?

VIOLA: If traffic gets too hectic, we may be doing a lot of discussion by side IRC chats, etc., rather than sorting it out on the list serve.

SHADOW: I want to keep a list for when someone comes in.

NORSEMAN: I think that something will happen that will makes us grow in a fast time.

VIOLA: Then come back and tell folks the conclusion, summary rather than all the details and back and forth.

NORSEMAN: Don't know yet what it will be, but it's a kind of feeling that I have.

VIOLA: Shadow: I already keep that list. Even folks who came and went fairly quickly.

SHADOW: Oh, okay

VIOLA: But I know it's not complete as if they come and leave REAL quick, I don't know they ever were there.

SHADOW: I think this Hale-Bopp will do a lot for us.

NORSEMAN: Shadow: yes, I think so to. If people will see that ZetaTalk is right, they will get more curious.

SHADOW: This will draw a lot of people to us.

VIOLA: That's what Cosmic is thinking for sure, as I think he timed the book for when its obvious that the government lied, etc.


ATOM: Disagree. When Hale-Bopp is not 1/3 of the sky, they'll find a reason. Perhaps they'll say that Zetas have destroyed it. :))

VIOLA: Re Hale-Bopp, I keep thinking that they must have a plan of some sort. If there's NOTHING THERE when all are looking at the sky, etc., what will they say?

SHADOW: You could be right Atom. We will see.

VIOLA: NASA and all need to say something logical, can't say the Zetas destroyed it. So what would that logical statement be? That its there but no one can see it?

ATOM: There are already story that Hale-Bopp is used by aliens etc.

SHADOW: I want to see the pictures that they will have to come up with.

ATOM: A transparent comet:)

VIOLA: Right now, they put up 300 pictures on a NASA site, old pictures, and are trying to get folks to look at pictures that OTHERS have taken instead of looking at the sky, etc.

VIOLA: Atom: too funny!

SHADOW: Yeah, I know that.

VIOLA: Maybe they will say that it outgassed so much in 1995, out past Jupiter, that there's nothing left to make a tail, etc. Gassed away to nothing!


VIOLA: I think even if they stick to their story, and it looks like that's what they're going to do, that folks will smell a rat.

SHADOW: I can't wait to hear the explanation.

VIOLA: It may never be proven one way or the other, but the Zeta statement will seem at least as reasonable as the NASA statement.

ATOM: One is for sure. They'll never say there was no Hale-Bopp.

SHADOW: It ought to be a juicy explanation, true.

NORSEMAN: There will be people who will still think that Hale-Bopp is for real, but I think there will be a lot of people who will know say "it was a fraud, all that time it was a FRAUD"

VIOLA: Atom: that's right! So they have to have SOME kind of explanation for why it is a no-show.

SHADOW: Yes. It is SUPPOSE to show in April, is this right. Not to far away is it.

VIOLA: One of our biggest challenges this next year will be organizing effectively when we have a large number of people joining.

NORSEMAN: Shadow: yes, and I have my doubts that I will.

VIOLA: We will need to change our ways somewhat.

ATOM: Should be 1/3 the sky in march I believe.

NORSEMAN: Viola: yes, agree.

VIOLA: Shadow: April 1, but late March is supposed to be spectacular.

SHADOW: Government is probably getting edgy then.

VIOLA: As that comet last year was so dramatic, folks have a frame of reference too.

NORSEMAN: The first of April ???? :)


ATOM: April 1 here is day for jokers. Same in US?

VIOLA: I'm already mentally preparing for a lot more information and more members. For instance, the linking pages have icons on top, and clicking on these icons takes one down the page.

NORSEMAN: Atom: the same over here to.

SHADOW: I think we will be swamped by the time Hale-Bopp is suppose to happen.

VIOLA: But if these linking pages get HUGE, so they take a lot of time to download, then clicking on the icon could take them to another page. This is a natural way to grow a lot with the information we offer, and not have to redesign the Troubled Times web page layouts.

VIOLA: Atom: Rubellus was mentioning the April 1 thing - it's April Fools Day! This is a hint to folks, you know, someone's sense of humor!


VIOLA: Likewise, we need to think about how to handle the list serve when the membership gets huge.

VIOLA: We may have to come up with side rules on what to post and where to post it, etc.

ATOM: Do you think they'll take it as a Fool Day's joke?

NORSEMAN: Viola: agree

SHADOW: Viola, your right on that.

VIOLA: We may have to have a kind of BBS within Troubled Times, where just general interest postings get placed.

ATOM: Viola: yes, that posting rules should be necessary.


VIOLA: I know that NT servers have a lot more capacity for variety of support than UNIX via Internet Providers.

NORSEMAN: Viola: that might be a good idea.

VIOLA: Atom: I think after it's a no-show, that many will get the picture faster because of the April Fools day thing.

VIOLA: So, maybe it was deliberate that they did that, to take the heat off NASA and the like, that the common man would get the picture faster, etc. Sure won't help NASA with their credibility, that's for sure.

NORSEMAN: Viola: perhaps, but it might be that NASA will search for a different way.

VIOLA: For instance, if we had our own server, and NT server, we could have a bulletin board kind of thing for postings like informational from MUFOR, etc. And a social list serve for real!

SHADOW: I think the bulletin board would be good.

VIOLA: And maybe other special interest subject list serves, too.

NORSEMAN: Viola: A real Social list serve.. :)

ATOM: You can count on me for software if needed.

VIOLA: We should then keep the general list serve for making announcements, etc. and directing newcomers.

VIOLA: Atom: thanks!


VIOLA: That Search Engine is really going to get used!

NORSEMAN: Viola: do you mean a kind of bullentin board that they have on the Comunion homepage?

ATOM: Actually, I was hoping to arrange for secure mailing list, but am not allowed as it is for international and is quite expensive.

VIOLA: Norse: Yes, exactly!

SHADOW: You know, I was looking through our files and we have the most and informative files on the net, at least I think.

NORSEMAN: Viola: that's a good idea.

VIOLA: Atom: lots of your ideas will be do-able when we get our OWN NT server. My husband bough most of the components yesterday.


ATOM: Viola, for mail server buy PostOffice!

VIOLA: We're going to have more than one NT server that is owned by Troubled Times members, serves Troubled Times solely, I have no doubt.

VIOLA: This was a vision of Long-Bows, and excellent idea, that we have our own servers.

NORSEMAN: More then 1 server, is a good idea.

VIOLA: There is safety in numbers. When we only had one site, then sabotage of the web site would cross folks mind, but with many sites and Mirror Sites, this is less attractive, they just forget about it!

ATOM: Post Office is an application for handling mail. Excellent! Does not depend on NT accounts, can have mailing lists (secured!).

NORSEMAN: Agree, Viola.

VIOLA: After we get large enough, then those who want us to just shut up and go away will have two options for attack. 1. to discredit us, 2. to form competing groups

ATOM: It's a blast. Mail me for details, if you need.

VIOLA: Atom: I'll talk to you about this later, when we have our software up and I can relate, etc.

NORSEMAN: But then we still have people like the last disrupter, etc., the so called "hey I am friendly" type.

VIOLA: Discrediting us will be ongoing, with those frightened or wanting to suppress panic in folks getting more vicious and aggressive in their attacks.

ATOM: 3. to infiltrate. It's harder to watch those infiltrants when group is big.

VIOLA: I think competing groups, or trying to get us to ally with flaky groups, will be the method we will find used this next year.


NORSEMAN: Atom: agree.

VIOLA: Atom: true, but as soon as they open their mouths, they put their foot in it.

SHADOW: Yes, that's right

VIOLA: However, one of the challenges of having the list serve activity in smaller chat groups, etc., is that if a really astute person is not leading that group, it can go to hell in a hurry!