link to Home Page

icon 05-Jan-97

Note: it is a general Troubled Times policy to change the names of IRC participants to screen names and remove personal discussions that occurred during the chat in the interests of privacy.

NORSEMAN: So we have some interesting subjects to chat about today, right?


CARRIE: What kind of weather are you having, Atom? ATOM: Fog, snow, cold, brrrr

NORSEMAN: Atom: is it cold over there? Last week it was cold over here to.

CARRIE: 75 degrees here yesterday. Usually it is cold, snowy during this time of year. ATOM: Norseman: well, pretty cold, but we'll survive.

SHADOW: It was close to 70 here [mid winter] the other day.

NORSEMAN: Carrie: how many degrees Celsius is 75 degrees Fahrenheit ATOM: Fahrenheit 9*Celsius/5 + 32. Or: Celsius=5/9*(Fahr-32)

SHADOW: You know, Rubellus mentioned about oil coming down. Do you think this will happen?

CARRIE: I think it is possible. If so, it will add fuel to the fire storms.

SHADOW: Yeah, the weather is getting very bad. That's for sure.

NORSEMAN: Shadow: Yes, it also happened with the previous cataclysms. They call it nafta if I am right.

SHADOW: And some kind of thing like a coat he might make.

CARRIE: Firemen's gear. It is quite expensive. Not the average family can afford it.

SHADOW: Carrie, yeah, something on the affect of fireman's gear. He said he could make it.

CARRIE: But can he mass produce it? Would there be a market for it? Can he teach others how to make their own?

SHADOW: I wonder if they would carry anything in an Army/Navy store like fireman's gear. The same kind of material. I will have to check that out some day. Hey, how come someone mentioned that you should wear mittens instead of gloves when the pole shift comes?

CARRIE: I think mittens will keep your hands warmer.

NORSEMAN: Shadow: mittens, what are that?

SHADOW: Mittens have a hole for your thumb and the rest of your fingers are all together in one hole. One big hole inside the mittens. Gloves have a hole for each finger. I really don't see the difference between them. When your fingers get cold, they get cold. May take more time though with mittens. Have to consider hats too.

NORSEMAN: I think mittens could be warmer, but easier, I don't think so.

SHADOW: Something to protect your ears. Yeah Norseman, I feel the same way.

CARRIE: And good thick wool socks to protect feet.

COSMIC: Shadow needs to get out in the open, media wise. I'm serious about this. She needs to go commercial. Develop a business. Become more official and solid. This is the way the world works. Get in the public's eye and stay there.

CARRIE: Sis, listen to Cosmic!

SHADOW: I hear him

SHADOW: Get into the publics eye again, damn.

VIOLA: I must say, Cosmic knows what he's talking about. Yesterday I got an offer from a UFO group to do an article. They wanted photos and information, so I gave them a story about my forehead scar and said I'd send them a photo. Cosmic has about a zillion MORE ideas on what to do, and contacted them, leading toward advertising for the book. He saw opportunity where I didn't, in effect.

COSMIC: You got it. I think it will fly. I just want to check out actual physical copy of the magazines, to have them in my hands and take a look-see.

CARRIE: UFO article sounds interesting, Viola.

SHADOW: Yes it does

VIOLA: Well, he said that photos and graphics were not much different, and expanded on the guys request, offered him more than an actual photo, and stuff on the book.

NORSEMAN: What about a UFO article?

VIOLA: We're talking about I and Shadow having publicity, and how to handle that. It's good to get focused on how to handle that, as I think we'll have more and more attention - starting THIS YEAR.

SHADOW: Yes, I think your right about that Viola

VIOLA: Cosmic suggested a good subject I thought, how to recognize STO and STS, if possible.

NORSEMAN: Viola: I think so to, last year was just a preparation year. Don't you think so?

VIOLA: He said I do well at that, but I'm actually listening to my intuition, so am not conscious of the signs. However, I think there ARE signs, if we think about it, and could list them.

COSMIC: I was talking about the magazine in Italy. Concerning the magazine, I will get the actual physical copies from the writer. He will have to send them to me.

VIOLA: I'm sure he will, too, Cosmic, as he gave his full address and all. Very serious offer.

CARRIE: Body language gives everyone away! Learn body language and it will help a lot about telling the difference between STO and STS

SHADOW: Yes. Many get nervous while talking.

CARRIE: What magazine is this?

VIOLA: The crux of STO/STS is what they do when the chips are down, but we don't have that under normal circumstances.

NORSEMAN: Carrie: Yes, I think there behavior will tell.

VIOLA: So what I use to judge is 1) are they a control freak or not. STS are almost ALWAYS trying to place restrictive controls on others.

SHADOW: Yes, their wording usually gives them away.

NORSEMAN: Viola: but someone who is undecided, how do they behave?

VIOLA: 2) they don't want free thought, free thinking. Like ultra-religious types, they get nervous when folks start to think for themselves. So they want tight little rules in place, to replace thought.

SHADOW: They most certainly do.

VIOLA: This can go hand in hand with 1), as control and repressing thinking are kind of one and the same. Then they like titles, long impressive titles and the like. If you think about it, our group operates with NO ONE really having a title. I put up the org charts so that NO ONE is actually in charge of the topic areas.

CARRIE: They will also deliberately give false info to distract one from finding the truth.

SHADOW: They get mad when they find out they can't control.

VIOLA: STS get nervous if there aren't titles and assigned authority, they don't know how to operate, but most importantly, they don't see how they can RULE.

SHADOW: Yes, long impressive titles like Christian Military Coalition.

VIOLA: 3) they want to RULE, and are always trying to put themselves in this position. 4) they will try to get the upper hand, using put-downs and derogatory comments and making folks feel low about themselves if possible.

COSMIC: Names are just a label - like a PostIt note - mine fell off and dropped to the ground a long time ago.

VIOLA: Now, contrasted with STO. 1) They don't need controls unless that just helps the workflow, don't ask for them and don't personally desire them.

NORSEMAN: STS are not the nicest people there are.

CARRIE: Another way I can tell about an orientation right away (besides intuition) is that the hair on my arm sometimes stands up when I come close to an STS.

COSMIC: Connect, connect: just like in ZetaTalk when Viola says that STS aliens love those titles/names. Well, of course, the STS humans do to.

VIOLA: 2) STO are definitely free thinking, they explore, mentally, and don't place restrictions.

NORSEMAN: Viola: you are right about STO.

CARRIE: STO encourage others to do the same.

SHADOW: I get a sort of quiver from them when around them.

VIOLA: There ARE not areas where one cannot THINK about this or that, unlike STS who complain that this is sacred or that is authorized or whatever.

COSMIC: I like the hair standing up on the arm thing.

VIOLA: 3) STO don't want to RULE. They may lead, and they may take charge of a group seeing that no one else is, and they may give directions if that is what's needed, but they don't have a personal hunger to RULE.

CARRIE: It works Cosmic! Read your body language when you come in contact with the STS. Do you quiver a little? Arm hair stand on end? Feel a knot in your stomach?

VIOLA: 4) STO will encourage and compliment folks, rather than want to put them down. This can be subtle, as STS can insult and tear one down in subtle ways, even seeming like a compliment, but it is clear to all that it's a veiled insult.

SHADOW: Especially the knot in the stomach bit. That one usually acts first.

CARRIE: Involuntary step back from them? Feel a bit nauseated?


CARRIE: What about your toes? Do they curl under a bit?

SHADOW: No, no toe curling

CARRIE: These are all involuntary reactions! But they are important!

SHADOW: Just begin to get shaky

NORSEMAN: Carrie: maybe you know telepathically that someone is STS, and your body reacts on your thoughts?

SHADOW: Feel like my mind goes blank for a split second.

CARRIE: Could be Norseman.

VIOLA: For instance a STO might say "Let me help you with that as I've done that before and you have your hands full" but a STS will say "You don't do that type of thing well, so let me be in charge." Subtle difference.

CARRIE: But I think we are all telepathic! We just need to learn to read the signals!

SHADOW: I believe we are too.

NORSEMAN: Carrie: agree.

SHADOW: That helps a great deal.

VIOLA: So many of us just recognize them when we see them, and we ALL have the same reaction, too. It's a great barometer.

CARRIE: Good analogy, Viola.

VIOLA: When I sense a strong STS, I can hardly stomach them! I have to wait until they show their hand, but I know them all along. Same with the rest of the group. So, all the sugar coated words and pretenses don't FOOL us, that's been the pattern.

SHADOW: I usually keep my mouth shut unless they step on my toes, then I explode.

NORSEMAN: Viola: telepathy that's for sure.

SHADOW: Can't be helped. Yes.

VIOLA: Telepathy helps, but I think what is going on is soul-to-soul communication too, so that's why the human body says, "don't know why, but I just don't trust that guy". Human wise, we DON'T know why.


NORSEMAN: Viola: right.

VIOLA: Cosmic wanted to talk about survival group, how they could know if a newcomer were STS or STO. Tough call.

SHADOW: Yes it is

COSMIC: Somewhere deep inside, we know. So it is a matter of quieting down all the noise, turning off all the filters, and letting the wisdom of your soul come out.

SHADOW: Have to really trust instincts and their wording.

NORSEMAN: Viola: and we were going to chat something about meditation, right?

VIOLA: On the approach, they would look the same, maybe. Except some signs would be present, like do they make the injured toddler walk or do they carry him.

SHADOW: Are they just concerned for themselves or for everyone.

VIOLA: Then workload. Do they offer to help and truly HELP, or are they gold bricking and just trying to take charge all the time.

COSMIC: Yes they will look the same as us, so the subtle to invisible clues are all we can go on.

SHADOW: Take note of any kind of nervousness in their voice, but if they are good, they won't have that in their voice. Watch their eyes

CARRIE: STS tend to be inconsiderate of others. They park in no-parking zones. They play very loud obnoxious music in public quiet places, etc.

NORSEMAN: Shadow: right.

VIOLA: STS can't hide their orientation very long, in close settings. There will be so many times when they turn their back on others and also want to take control, be the control freak they naturally are, so it shows.

NORSEMAN: Carrie: they don't think about the others.

CARRIE: They block people's driveways (could not resist that one, shadow)

VIOLA: Many STS are in the military, in politics, in high corporate positions, but their STS character is covered by those they work with, so the public does not know.

SHADOW: Yeah I know Carrie.

COSMIC: They harass peaceful people who may think differently than they.

VIOLA: For instance, a general might make a decision to let civilians die, be terrified and injured and actually LIKE that power trip, but the decision might look good on paper. Yet those close to him saw his eyes and knew what his choices were, etc.

CARRIE: Took care of a STS patient last week. Old lady was terminally ill with cancer and couldn't care for herself anymore. None of her family wanted anything to do with her.

NORSEMAN: Cosmic: they don't like free thought.

SHADOW: That's for sure Norseman

VIOLA: Now, caring for people should not be confused with being a goody-goody.

COSMIC: She fashioned her death, with her behavior.

VIOLA: Survival Groups will need to say, get up and stop sniveling and get dressed and come pick beans or whatever.

NORSEMAN: Viola: you are right about that.


VIOLA: They may need to be tough with each other, not give help when self help is possible. Just refuse, etc.

COSMIC: No wimps allowed.

CARRIE: Had another one like that a couple of years ago. In this case, the family told her that they could not wait for her to die because she was so nasty to everyone!


VIOLA: But this, when taken into context of the situation, is NOT cruel. It's just practical and is actually building the person up, not tearing them down.

COSMIC: Well, if you have some wimpiness, now is the time to learn how to be strong, independent, grow in maturity.

SHADOW: Yes, you will definitely learn to grow.

NORSEMAN: Right, Shadow.

CARRIE: And help others grow also.

VIOLA: So, just like in our group, STS may come up to a survival group, or want to join a group getting prepared now, but it may take a bit until their true natures come out.

SHADOW: Yes, and I feel this group does help people grow.

VIOLA: I don't think there is a way to just say - bankers are STS, nurses are STO, because that's surely not the case.

NORSEMAN: Shadow: yes, it helped me to grow.

SHADOW: And me too.

CARRIE: That is so true, Viola. I certainly know of some STS nurses.

COSMIC: I think if you are STO, and just getting involved in the life you have, the you are teaching by example. You don't have to worry so much about all the words. Just be active and get the job done.

NORSEMAN: Viola: right, that's not the case.

VIOLA: It would seem to me that pre-pole shift groups would need to KNOW each other. If they openly advertise, then they'll have problems for sure. Afterwards, or during the pole shift, these are my thoughts on how to handle those not already in groups, etc.


NORSEMAN: Viola: then STS might join the group, trying to gain control, etc.?

CARRIE: How do they find each other?

COSMIC: The outer shell, and the career is not a clue to STO or STS orientation.

VIOLA: Have a survival pack, a self-help pack, and give this to those whom one is not certain of. For instance, seed and fish hooks and the like.

SHADOW: Good idea.


SHADOW: That would work if you are unsure. That way you don't jeopardize the group.

VIOLA: Clean their wounds, feed them a few solid meals, then suggest they go elsewhere with their self help pack and send them off.

COSMIC: STS will certainly try and join the groups that have survived. Everyone will, as there will not to many viable groups. This is why there has to be an wise elder (or three) in the bunch to look into the hearts and souls of people to make an accurate assessment as to their orientation.

NORSEMAN: Cosmic: I think you're right about that!

VIOLA: I think this may be less of a problem than we think, as today most of those kinds of decisions are STOPPED and not allowed to happen. In school, all children must join. Military, all can enlist. Politics, the liar almost does better.

SHADOW: I think our biggest problems will come with militias.

VIOLA: Clubs, associations, all can join, usually.

COSMIC: Very good, Viola. Hope that continues into the Aftertime.

NORSEMAN: Shadow: you might be right about that.

SHADOW: There are more and more militias out there now then ever before and they are willing to take over everyone.

VIOLA: But groups of friends are where one CHOOSES whom one wants to be with, well, even families are not a choice. So, friendships break up when a STO is being taken advantage by a STS, and marriages break up, etc. So maybe this is not so big a problem as we think. Maybe recognizing them, the STS, will be easy.

SHADOW: Life is an EXPERIENCE, I'll say that. We come in contact with all kinds anymore.

NORSEMAN: Shadow: agree (that's the only thing I can say).

VIOLA: More difficult is the person neither here or there, like a child, not mature. One doesn't want to be unfair. But I think self-help packets are NOT unfair.

CARRIE: The trick is when you have a family unit and all are STO except for one member.

SHADOW: No, they are not unfair at all Viola. Its the safest way.

COSMIC: Concerning militias: I think they will exist, but that there will be some unseen protection for the STO communities. Those communities more solid on the STO side, will have less exposure to the STS side, me thinks - like a quarantine will be in place. But those communities that are wavering in orientation, they certainly will be seeing the gangs, the military groups, and have to deal with them.

NORSEMAN: Viola: right. Self-help packets are NOT unfair, you can't let someone die just because he/she is STS.

CARRIE: Plus, I think STO groups will have some "protection".

NORSEMAN: Carrie: Yes they will have some protection.

VIOLA: Some of our movies, sic-fi, on post disaster situations are not too far off, I think. Basically, stay away from or leave the gangs, but fast!

VIOLA: Cosmic wanted to talk about emergency medical situations, as he just HAD one.

CARRIE: Mad Max was a good tutorial!

VIOLA: I took CPR at work once, as I was supposed to be a CPR person for our department, etc.

CARRIE: Yes Cosmic. What happened?

NORSEMAN: that's a good subject - emergency medical situations.

CARRIE: Everyone should earn CPR!

VIOLA: How to restart breathing after an electric shock, how to stop a bleeding artery, prevent shock by keeping warm.

NORSEMAN: Carrie: I think I will start learning it too.

CARRIE: Also how to do a precordial thump!

COSMIC: I hope the Shadow takes what I said seriously, as I think it will make a big difference in her life, give her more peace. Who wants guys with bad intentions snooping around?

VIOLA: But the medical emergencies Cosmic is talking about, I think, are NOT those obvious ones, but the subtle ones that we rely upon the hospitals to handle.

CARRIE: I hope she does it also! Safety in notoriety!

VIOLA: Precordial Thump?

NORSEMAN: Carrie: Yes , what does that mean?

VIOLA: Safety in notoriety exactly! As we get into the limelight in TT, we will have less problems with the obvious takeover attempts. They like the dark corners, like rats. They don't like the light of day.

COSMIC: Yes, a couple a days ago, my wife went unconscious due to diabetic shock. We were watching TV together, and I thought she was just dozing off. But, as some of you know: you will never wake up from this unless someone is there to help.

CARRIE: Yes. When one can't start the heart with CPR, one hits the chest with a balled up fist as hard as one can hit. Hit on the left side near the center of the chest. This will often jolt the heart into start beating.

VIOLA: There are some illnesses where folks have systemic problems, go septic and the like, or require regular medications, and survivors without those medications will just have to hold them and let them die!

CARRIE: Just remember that if a person has not been breathing for 4 minutes, irreversible brain damage has occurred (except in drowning cases)

VIOLA: For instance, premature babies. Old days if they weren't 7 or more months, didn't survive or had breathing problems.

NORSEMAN: Carrie: Yes, brain damage, the brain need's oxygen.

COSMIC: I ran to get a Glycogen kit, mixed the medicines then gave her a shot. But still it took a good 15 minutes to bring her into full consciousness.

CARRIE: Septicemia will be the biggest killer after the pole shift.

VIOLA: One of my aunts was a preemie that was so tiny that her head fit into a tea cup. She survived as my grandmother was very alert and THOUGHT a lot about physiology, plus caring.

COSMIC: My question is: how do we handle this situation after the pole shift, when we don't have 911 services, no medication, no needles, no Glycogen kits?

VIOLA: We have many folks who are alive today because of modern medicine. But in the old days, they were long dead due to their situation.

CARRIE: That was rough, Cosmic!

NORSEMAN: Carrie: do you know how to store pure oxygen, some people might need that, if you know what I mean?

VIOLA: Unless a survival group is modernized, has electricity and cooling capabilities and can MANUFACTURE medication, I think there will be tragedies.

CARRIE: Sometimes when they are unconscious, if you put a little sugar in their mouths and tilt their chins back so that it dissolves and goes down, it will help very fast!

NORSEMAN: Viola: I think so too.

VIOLA: Unless these folks who are handicapped severely have someone who loves them and consistently takes care of them, they will probably lie there and starve or perish otherwise.

COSMIC: Thanks for the advice Carrie.

VIOLA: Folks getting kidney dialysis. Goners for sure.

NORSEMAN: Viola: agree with you. Handicapped people need someone take can take care of them. Some can't walk etc.

VIOLA: Modern facilities will also have to decide what they can and cannot support. Today, we have groups with medical problems clamoring for the drug companies to look for cures, here or there. The drug companies focus on certain illnesses, based on profit in the main. In a similar manner, survival group will be saying, here's what we have to work with, now how to we parse out our efforts. If the group needs Vitamin C and they can't produce this and other stuff same time, then decisions will be made as to who lives and who dies, essentially.

COSMIC: Yes, we have to face it: not to long ago, many people died in their 20s, 30s, anytime, as there was no modern medicine to help. No fancy equipment either. This certainly will be the case once again, for the first decade after the pole shift. Many folks will just die, who have diabetic shock, or a slightly complicated birth, or a hole in their colon, or whatever.

CARRIE: People on ventilators, people who need frequent blood transfusions, people who need supplemental oxygen - all goners.

VIOLA: This is really no different than what we have today, life and death decisions are actually BEING made, in effect.

NORSEMAN: That's too bad!

CARRIE: Basically, life and death decisions are based on economics. NOT the QUALITY of life!

VIOLA: Those who have loved ones with special needs will have to focus on how to supply those needs if there is no manufacture of medication and the like. If nothing can be arranged, its really a tough situation.

NORSEMAN: Carrie: right, agree.

COSMIC: All goners. The human form is on its way out, to be replaced by a container more suitable to peaceful life on this planet.

VIOLA: You know, I was thinking, when I heard about contactees having a black box recall, where there was something they were supposed to do but did not WANT to recall it until the time came. It occurred to me that some of them might be helping folks die, seriously, and I'll expand on that.

NORSEMAN: Cosmic: right. Not all people will be goners, but after the Transformation live will sure be different.

COSMIC: What is it? Do you know what the black box is for? Tell me, tell me. I don't have one, but I know it is important.

VIOLA: What if you worked in a facility for the severely mentally retarded, and you KNEW that these kids or folks would be frightened and alone, perhaps subject to sadistic teasing and torture and cannibalism.

CARRIE: I'm one of those that will be helping people with the death process. Please give me more info.

NORSEMAN: Viola: I had such kind of recall, if I am right, about some kind of black object or something like that.

VIOLA: So, the pole shift happens and you stay with them and help them die, dying yourself, of course.


VIOLA: What if someone were taking care of dying patients in pain, and the pain medication ran out.

COSMIC: Got it. True STO.

VIOLA: You stay with them after the pole shift, putting a bag over their heads so they pass out, painlessly, etc. If they so wish this. I know this sounds horrible, but may be the kindest thing.

CARRIE: Called "pillow therapy".

NORSEMAN: Viola: right, if they don't want to live anymore. It may be the kindest thing.

VIOLA: Black box is where the contactee has recall of being presented with a black box. They understand what to do with it, but can't RECALL the details, etc. They are choosing NOT to recall the details, until the time comes.

CARRIE: A physical black box?

VIOLA: I know of a case like this, a man in Scotland. Wrote and asked questions, but when it was suggested he migrate OUT of Scotland, he said he would stay with the children, in the facility he was working in, handicapped children.

NORSEMAN: Carrie: I think it's physical.

VIOLA: Now, recently, its come to light that Scotland will all go under water. So you know what this guy is, solid STO.

NORSEMAN: Viola: indeed he is.

COSMIC: Yes, sometimes we have to make life and death decisions. 15 years ago, my wife and I had twins, born prematurely. One had a had to have a heart operation. That was successful and all was well, until one day she was over-medicated. This produced a heart attack and created great damage. So I made the decision to have her unplugged, and I held her in my arms until she passed on. It was terrible, but the best thing to do at the time. And I have never regretted

VIOLA: In their recall, they remember being handed a black box, yes, symbolic, I believe. Cosmic, she would have been brain damaged, and I agree with your decision. Horrific situation, Cosmic, one every parent dreads. Maybe one of the things to do to help prepare folks is an attitude adjustment. Life will simply not be the same!

CARRIE: Cosmic, what a horrible situation! But you did the right thing - you did not let your child suffer.

VIOLA: I get bleeding gums and if I don't have my teeth cleaned every 3 months, it gets severe. I think my teeth will all fall out, and I've stopped worrying about it and think more about other things. So, I've accepted what will happen! Maybe this is the only way. I visualize myself toothless, etc., and this helps me prepare. This is a silly comparison to some of the serious subjects we are discussion here, but I wanted to give an example.

NORSEMAN: Viola: Yes attitude adjustment..

COSMIC: STO folks know that there is more to life than just this body, this situation. The soul may have to go on to another world, another lesson, elsewhere. Or, maybe these human forms are just old vehicles, and the entity would like to discard it and stand in line to get one of those new bodies - the hybrid form.

CARRIE: This planet will be transforming from one density to another - so there are bound to be changes!

VIOLA: Where there's love and acceptance, this helps all life situations.

CARRIE: Where there is energy and love - there is healing.

NORSEMAN: Viola: right, Carrie: right.

COSMIC: Don't worry Viola. Well get you some bionic teeth that will work better than the current ones.

VIOLA: Sometimes we don't know our own strength until the situation calls for it.

CARRIE: We have to remember that everyone came on to this planet choosing their own circumstances. We have to respect this!

VIOLA: Cosmic, hahahah! I comfort myself knowing that earthworms can be easily gummed :-).

CARRIE: Well, Viola, look at it this way - there won't be that much around to eat anyway!

VIOLA: Death is not the end, bottom line. I promised to mention some of the goals we hold for 1997.

CARRIE: Death is a transition from one realm of being to another. Just like birth is. When we are born, we die from another type of existence.

VIOLA: Carrie mentioned expanding the medical section. What do you mean precisely, do you have certain areas, or just in general?

COSMIC: As we grow older, our physical body changes so much, we will soon look like all the other old folks that we see in the homes and on the street. That's why, right now, we have to really look past the physical form and pay attention to what's IN the container.

CARRIE: Listing and giving some basic info on different energy healing methods. We are going to have to learn how to use our own body's healing energies. Because that it all we are going to have for awhile! Other than basic first-aid techniques, that is.

VIOLA: Atom mentioned finding the 12th Planet, fixing on it, and others mentioned this too as a 1997 goal.

COSMIC: I was serious about the bionic teeth (false ones that is), don't worry, you will look great and no one will notice, or care.

NORSEMAN: Viola: right, finding the 12th Planet is for sure a 1997 goal.

VIOLA: Atom and Norseman mentioned finding a way to package TT info for non-computerized folks. Always was a plan for Longbow too, who wanted to have an ftp site that folks could download and print, thought I don't think this is necessarily the answer. Point is, a goal of many. Some also mentioned wanting to have personal survival group plans put into place, getting a personal group together or started.

NORSEMAN: There are people who don't have an internet connection, they need to know it to how to survive. We have to reach them.

CARRIE: Not every disease or injury will be cured. But the sufferer(s) can be made more comfortable. Did you know that our bodies have its own painkillers? Lots of potent pain meds work by distraction so that the body can release these painkillers. We have to put TT in a book.

VIOLA: A couple of us, Norseman and myself, see having our own servers, NT servers, as important. No disrupted IRC chats, and I can see that running programs offers so much more functionality on the web.

COSMIC: Our body's healing energy: this is why I e-mailed TT concerning meditation. I think it is so powerful to get the body & mind clipping along at a healthy rate.

CARRIE: It was wonderful, Cosmic

VIOLA: Interactive web site, I what I'm describing, like enter this, get back that, search engines, etc.

NORSEMAN: Cosmic: it helps me to relax. I did it last year, and before.

VIOLA: There are phenomenal cures that can occur, shock the doctors all the time, so we DON'T understand what the body can do at all. I myself am here when 5 specialized agreed among themselves that I was dead. I mean, could not survive.

CARRIE: Like the Zs said, when a person decides that he/she wants to survive, such cures take place.

COSMIC: I've seen her folks: she's not dead!

NORSEMAN: Cosmic: okay! :-) She isn't dead.

VIOLA: Norseman mentioned getting more mirror sites, and I think this is important too. In other countries, in their languages to a certain extent.

CARRIE: They told me take my newborn son home to die. He'll be 21 next month. I was morgue-bait myself when I was a kid. Still here and kicking!

COSMIC: Am considering how to package the TT materials effectively, and will present my ideas before the group soon. First I have to finish the project Viola and I are doing, which will be all done in maybe 2 weeks.

NORSEMAN: Cosmic: I hope you find a good way to package the TT materials.

VIOLA: We have some real holes in the solution set, and my personal goal is to FIND those solutions. We need bright lights that will grow plants, and a bulb that can be constructed at a survival site, easily, by average folks.

COSMIC: 21! Boy you're old.

VIOLA: THAT is a biggie that I keep harping on, so we don't forget. If she's old, them I'm ancient (feel like it most times too).

VIOLA: Cosmic, you're so full of ideas, such a gem and help to me and the group!

NORSEMAN: Carrie: You aren't that old. Viola: for sure he is.

COSMIC: Mushrooms are so important, as they can grow in no light and require only the right things to grow on + the original mycelium. Fantastic source of protein, make lots of other foods taste good when cooked together. I've grown mushrooms.

VIOLA: I think a goal of a number of us is to get media coverage, thought we're not working on this per se.

CARRIE: No, I am NOT old. I am YOUNG! The minute I think I am old, I will be. Age is not about how many years one has lived - it is about how one feels.

VIOLA: The sci.astro debates, and we keep getting mentioned places like the Strieber chat board. And the book coming out, but this is all ZetaTalk stuff. However, TT will in its own right start to get a fan club, and mentioned here and there, especially as the weather keeps changing.

NORSEMAN: Viola: but because of the book, people will get curious, might go to the website etc.

CARRIE: Once ZT becomes popular, then TT will may become popular also.

VIOLA: Did you all see what I posted to the list serve? The slowing of the earth is happening so fast that it is measurable on a daily basis!

NORSEMAN: Carrie: popular, is such a big word if you know what I mean

COSMIC: I'm old. But I have a zipper in the back of my head, under the hair, and I can unzip the entire outer cover - good God! there's a 10 year old boy in there!


CARRIE: With increased popularity, this core group will have to remain very strong if not become stronger.

VIOLA: Mushrooms will be in everybody's basement, I suspect, source of Vitamin B too, and minerals, I'll bet.

CARRIE: And psychedelic?

COSMIC: I think we could have thousands and thousands and thousands of visitors interested in ZT and TT, starting in the very near future.

VIOLA: Cosmic, boyish to the end :-)

COSMIC: Duhhhh, what do you think?

NORSEMAN: Cosmic: I think you are right, I think we can expect a lot this year, and that means A LOT

VIOLA: I think we should think of ourselves as preparing for the flood, the rush, of interest.

CARRIE: I agree.

VIOLA: It's a slow pace now, but when we get a lot of interest, then we can get discombobulated unless we plan NOW how to handle this.

CARRIE: I think getting a listserv for social TT will help.

NORSEMAN: Carrie: agree with that, a listsever will be handy for the Social TT.

VIOLA: So I think we should think about how to handle lots of request and the like. What those requests might BE.

COSMIC: Yes, we have to think about organizational structures able to handle a huge volume of interested people.

VIOLA: If we have a non-computerized form of the info, that will help.

CARRIE: Maybe set up a FAQ

VIOLA: When I get the prototype site set up, Cosmic and I have talked about having tour groups go thorough.

NORSEMAN: Carrie: Yes, that's an idea, setting up an FAQ.

VIOLA: My husband thinks that I could take video clips, and put them on the Intenet.

CARRIE: That's a good idea.

SHADOW: That would be a good idea.

VIOLA: Well, with an NT server, we can certainly DO that, video clips.

NORSEMAN: Viola: Yes, that's a good idea.

VIOLA: Cosmic thinks that video of the prototype site, with voice over and head shots of some TT members talking with each other about survival, would be good. Sell the videos at cost to whom ever.

VIOLA: Video production of prototype sites, non-computerized access (books or whatever)

NORSEMAN: Viola: I think that Cosmic is right,, good idea.

VIOLA: What kind of requests does everyone think we might GET?

CARRIE: Survival locations, survival equipment.

VIOLA: You mean they would want to know - safe place, what equipment?

CARRIE: Right!

COSMIC: Viola is right about the video vision. We will produce a full scale video, nothing cheap-looking, with all the things that you see in a good informative video: Titles & text burnt into the imagery, people walking through pointing out things & talking about it, a narrator, graphics.

VIOLA: Safe place is a big question, but since we started posting specific info, this seems to have satisfied a lot of questions. Folks are getting their questions ANSWERED.

CARRIE: Thinking about those without computer access.

VIOLA: I think one thing the average newbie thinks/asks, is what is the government going to do about it.

CARRIE: That is true.

VIOLA: They don't start thinking about how to help themselves until they realize there ain't going to BE a government.

NORSEMAN: Yes, in what way could we let them know that these info is available, the video and so on, the people without an internet account

COSMIC: When we start packaging up info for people without computers, we will be entering the mass media as most people know it.

NORSEMAN: Cosmic: agree, we will be entering the mass media

VIOLA: Oh! For sure, if we have non-computerized information, we can put a list of that in the Information section, but this is only available to those WITH a computer.


VIOLA: I've been really proud of how we fleshed out each topic area! We got dressed, and probably just in time.

COSMIC: Soon, we will need to make our own 1 and 2 minute video packages, to be sent to TV news stations.

VIOLA: I think we will have hundreds of icons, 50 or more in each area.

NORSEMAN: Cosmic: good idea..

VIOLA: If the linking page gets to be too big, then it can just be icons with a branch to a separate linking page for each.

COSMIC: News shows will then be able to pick up our imagery, and plug it into a larger story. It is best if we package everything up, rather than an outside source.

VIOLA: At a certain point, the topics just get more and more fleshed out with detail, reworked, plateau, so to speak.

VIOLA: Cosmic is a promotion wiz.

NORSEMAN: Cosmic: agree.

VIOLA: He sees opportunities where I see none! But then, I'm focusing on the message, making sure it doesn't get twisted, etc. Each has their own focus and expertise. Long-Bow, we were talking about 1997, and one thing was finding the 12th for sure.

VIOLA: If we don't get astronomers to look on their own, then we could get our own equipment, but my thoughts are that we should try to get dozens of astronomers, world wide, to start looking.

COSMIC: These ideas are a must. If the book is read by millions, then there will be mass interest, unlike anything seen on a computer screen. It only serves our interest to make the message ourselves, with our words, our ideas, our direction, with images we have created.

VIOLA: Even if they don't SAY SO, doing this on their own. Then, it gets harder to suppress the word, as it keeps popping up!

NORSEMAN: Cosmic: what about the countries outside the USA? Will the book also be available over there

COSMIC: Yes with the astronomers.

VIOLA: There are too many telescopes out there for any establishment to be able to control. Once the cat's out of the bag, and folks are looking for it and finding it, TOO LATE!


VIOLA: Cosmic, so you're mentally preparing to package TT non-computer, expecting that there will be a flood of interest and we need to be READY?

COSMIC: We have to package up info for USA first, as that is where the seed money is at. With a good financial shot in the arm, we will then pursue international distribution, translation into other languages (plus but the book on cassette tape, in several languages for the blind). That is our plan.

VIOLA: I printed off the 1997 wish list, and next year end I'm going to summarize it for the list serve. It will help us to see how we're growing. A good yearly exercise, looking back and forward too. Sometimes, when you're in the swamp as we are, its hard to see that one IS making progress.

COSMIC: I have no extra time right now, but I expect I will have a lot more time available to work on Saquo and TT in the near future.

VIOLA: We've grown tremendously, and I think this next year ill be stunning in that regard.

COSMIC: Good. I like to get stunned. Feels good.

NORSEMAN: Viola: agree, maybe 60 or more members at the end of this year, or maybe over a hundred.

VIOLA: Thing to keep in mind is that this can all happen FAST. Paperback books can be printed from electronic media in a morning.

COSMIC: Or maybe over a thousand.

VIOLA: One can get popular and be asked to speak on TV shows or give articles in magazines, almost overnight.

NORSEMAN: Cosmic: let's hope so.

VIOLA: So, we need to mentally as well as physically prepare for this possibility.

LONGBOW: Viola: I think we need a prioritized wish list so folks like me can choose more wisely.

VIOLA: We're such STO, get the basics in for folks, people, that we don't think media exposure, etc.

COSMIC: Magazine articles will happen sooner than the book, I think, and that means like next month.

NORSEMAN: Viola: I will be prepared for it.

SHADOW: Really

VIOLA: Cosmic is thinking about this, for me, what the persona is like, what kind of media exposure puts one in the best light, what to avoid, etc.

COSMIC: You got it.


COSMIC: I'm all business, and boring too!

NORSEMAN: I noticed that, Cosmic. You're not boring Cosmic.

COSMIC: Am too.

SHADOW: No hell your not

COSMIC: Am too

LONGBOW: And I also think we need a schedule, there isn't time for just random activity.

SHADOW: A smart ass too

COSMIC: Well, I've proven that I'm not funny.

VIOLA: Long-Bow, mentioned were 1) find the 12th, 2) more medical solutions, 3) more mirror sites, 4) non-computer packaging for TT, 5) own NT server, 6) light bulbs that can be manufactures, 7) vitamin C manufacture.

SHADOW: But not boring.

VIOLA: I don't know how to prioritize all that, all important. Humm. For myself, I've taken out a couple things for ME to focus on. The prototype site startup, and the NT server. Personal goals in 1997. Re the 12th Planet, Vitamin C, light bulbs - I plan to be a nag on those, sci.astro nudges, etc, and mention this on the list serve so its not forgotten. But not personally DO any of that.

VIOLA: Schedule - I'd like to see us have a solution set that is comprehensive, can be adapated for single family on a shoestring up to well funded large group - by the end of this year!

LONGBOW: Viola, I have lots experience with project scheduling and can volunteer to do that.

VIOLA: Longbow, we are random right now, but this allows each who joins to offer what they are good at! If we tried to create a stronger structure, much of what has been contributed might not have been offered. I think of the group more like a strong flowing stream, and the goal to keep it all moving, more than anything. Communication is important, as if we keep emphasizing what NEEDS to be done, then helping hands seem to pop up!

LONGBOW: Schedules can and always do, especially when there aren't resources, people to do things.

NORSEMAN: Viola: agree.

VIOLA: I note that posting jobs to be done seems to be a dead page. Work gets done only because folks enter the list serve and chat about stuff - THEN someone either joins with the particular skill or some existing member finds they have the time or skill. Longbow, what project would you schedule, and how would you do this? For instance, finding the 12th. What kind of a schedule and what would we do? I know that I'm getting ready to nudge all the astronomers on sci.astro, doing this by debating so they take whatever I post seriously. Then worldwide we have many LOOKING, with existing equipment, and plus this cannot be suppressed as it is too broad, no one knows what to target, etc. This isn't a schedule nor is it being managed, exactly. Now, prototype sites, Longbow THEY may need to be managed, for sure.

NORSEMAN: just like a river... :)

VIOLA: The site I hope to start this next year will have a ton of work needing to be done! And there will be funds, perhaps, from the book. Putting up a windmill, fish tanks, NT server, getting ready for tours, etc., will be a lot of work.

NORSEMAN: Yes, the prototype sites need to be managed

VIOLA: It's also hard to manage 6 billion people who can join and contribute, one cannot PREDICT what will come the next moment.